The perfect general purpose 308 AR

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10 years 11 months ago #31675 by SOC
Replied by SOC on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR

13fcolt wrote: I'll vouch for the UBR balancing out the ar10 while keeping it compact. Always just stuck with 20 rounders for prone clearance though.


If I'm running this rig I'm also running body armor that results in more clearance. My rig has a combo or 20 and 25 round mags.

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10 years 11 months ago #31676 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR
Yep SOC that's what we are talking about. :thumbs:

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10 years 11 months ago #31688 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR

SOC wrote:

13fcolt wrote: I'll vouch for the UBR balancing out the ar10 while keeping it compact. Always just stuck with 20 rounders for prone clearance though.


If I'm running this rig I'm also running body armor that results in more clearance. My rig has a combo or 20 and 25 round mags.



Yep, practice how you'll preach! :usa:

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10 years 11 months ago #31852 by 10-76
Replied by 10-76 on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR

Siscowet wrote: Sounds like some modifications to the AR10T Carbine will do it.


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Pretty much where I'm at, but I went with the 20" barrel rather than the carbine, simply for the extra distance and speed when I get to that point in my re-loading. Only possible conundrum is attaching/tuning for a can at some point or another.

This reminds me of the Cooper Scout rifle debate, which I love to monkey with. Current armory had a gap which was filled with the 10T and A4: my old Rem. 742 in .308 was tired & heavy. I trust the Colt M4 out to 500m w/o problems, and the Browning Eclipse in .300 WM is dandy for extreme range single shots, right now-but that thing weighs in at like 18 pounds as I've got it scoped and pod-mounted.

The tweeks for my T would be an MP collapsing butt stock (SOPMOD?), the new glass I've been drooling over for a couple years now, and a single rail attachment out on the end of the free float for whatever doo dads; light or laser bolt-ons.

I guess for me it comes down to accuracy and weight: Can I shoot the rifle accurately with which range of available ammo., and where is the weight of this unit? Once it gets over 12 pounds w/o a loaded mag., what have you got? How far can I run with it? Can I hand it off to one of my smaller buddies and not watch him sink in the mud? At what point of "light" does the rifle suffer for accuracy?

Then, I get stuck in analysis paralysis and say WTF, keep hitting the weight pile after the 3 mile run, and everything's just fine.

A question in the question: What do you see as being the general purpose? Paper, steel, comp., SHTF, battle, L.E. work? Is your GP 7.62 going from deer camp to big dollar training camp with a Pat Rogers/Haley/Costa?

Meh, more coffee...

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10 years 11 months ago #31853 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR
Good questions 10-76. My idea of a General Purpose rifle is that it has to meet two overriding criteria: 1. We can't predict what its primary use is because no one can predict the future, so it should be at home in deer camp, a SHTF scenario, recreational shooting, and any other scenario you could think of, within the capability of the 308 caliber. 2. It has the maximum capability that can be built into a single rifle and still be comfortable to carry for the average person. When I got my 20 in barrel A4, I did so because I was skeptical of the accuracy of the 16in barrel. Since joining this web site I am starting to realize that unless I am doing 800 yard shots, the 16 would be fine. And I doubt I will ever do many or any of those. I like it now and am used to it, but the extra weight and length is probably unnecessary.

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10 years 11 months ago #31854 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR
Lets start with weight: I came in the Army and was issued a M14 with sling which was either canvas or heavy leather. Not sure what it weighed at but trust me it was HEAVY or it was for a while. But soon the weight was not a factor as my M 14 had become my 'everyday carry'. We would double time/march out to the ranges unless we had range first thing in the am, then we would double time/march back unless it was very close to supper time then we were trucked. You could figure every day was a 15 mile day at least with a butt pack, 2 canteens and a M 14.

Weight, what weight...LOL never forget the first time I picked up a M 16 I nearly threw it across the room as I was not expecting a rifle that light.

As for your question:
"A question in the question: What do you see as being the general purpose? Paper, steel, comp., SHTF, battle, L.E. work? Is your GP 7.62 going from deer camp to big dollar training camp"

That is a long stretch. I personally feel the .308 is more than needed for all of those. From a size standpoint I feel something in the 6.5-6.8 is what is needed or what I call Goldylocks, not too big, not too small. I wish someone would work on that and solve that issue. The .270 Win would be it were it not for its case length...anyone necked down a 308 to .270 using the 308 case? But I digressed.


I have on a back burner at plan to take my 10T and see how much I can lighten it...I will tell you not much. I am thinking big savings will come by reducing bbl length to 18" and fluting it, lighten the handguard and look at the buttstock for the rest of the savings. Overall I am thinking 3 lbs is about the max savings to be had and keep it 'battle qualified'. What is battle qualified? That is a weapon that can take the rigors of the battle field. Take you weapon and butt stroke a tree trunk as hard as you possibly can...what shape is it in now, broken stock, jammed internals, recoil tube bent or jammed? If your weapon cannot take that without any damage whatsoever then you just have a boat paddle...ohh, you don't go around slamming it into tree trunks? Well no I don't either, but somewhere out there is a VC who may well be taking his meals thru a straw to this day after I buttstroked his lower face...sure wish we had 30 mags back in those days!

So if you want the 10T as you go to then make it your daily carry and after a while it will not be heavy 'cause it will become your brother.

and or

Put it on a diet, go 18 on the bbl, unless you are going for 800 yds 18 will have very little effect, flute it and look at the handguards and buttstock...

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10 years 11 months ago #31941 by 10-76
Replied by 10-76 on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR
I agree and respectfully disagree, but LOL at the weight comparo with the old M14s. :clap:

My last gig actually had us with M14s that almost nobody could qual. with at 100 yds: they were that beat; bad guys are definitely safe there. What I used to hump to the ranges, I'm guessing, were the SP-1s, and man what a shooting difference in quality compared to the 6920s of today!

I'd disagree on purpose appointment, as it is dependent on where/what the shooter is at: I can leave a tower deer stand overlooking our open 900m field, walk 20m into the woods, throw the rifle into the trunk and take it to L.E. work as it has been approved. I'd certainly take the 6920 to a 3-gun match, but I also have enough 7.62 on hand to use it in a pinch with confidence. I'm not trying to pick a debate, just chewing on morning coffees.. I'd definitely rather sneak hunt the woods with ANY T, rather than the Eclipse .300W.M..

Yes, it comes down to weight reduction for me anyway, barrel length, and proprietary parts swapping aspects: barrels, mags, and bits. Speaking of: what is the weight difference between one of the 20 round LR P-Mags, and an AL 20 rd unit? IIRC, somebody had weighed an AL mag loaded coming in at 5 pounds on it's own?

So more questions: what is the collapsible stock of preference, and what's the weight savings there? Does anybody here actually consider a scope's weight before buying? I really like the free-float tube that came on the T, what's there to improve on there, weight-wise?

Caliber swap: The varying reviews on 6.5/6.8/300 BLK have me just plain keeping a distance to wait and see. Reading reviews by the match U.S. Army team guys, they equate the 300 BLK as lobbing rainbows much beyond 200m, but I figure they're just shaking down for real-time with suppressors anyway?

Looking at the SPR platforms I came across this company;
www.nemesisarms.com/nemesis_arms_products.html

5 calibers from 1 platform, with just a 30 second barrel swap? Holy smokes.




OleCowboy wrote: Weight, what weight...LOL never forget the first time I picked up a M 16 I nearly threw it across the room as I was not expecting a rifle that light.

As for your question:
"A question in the question: What do you see as being the general purpose? Paper, steel, comp., SHTF, battle, L.E. work? Is your GP 7.62 going from deer camp to big dollar training camp"

That is a long stretch. I personally feel the .308 is more than needed for all of those. From a size standpoint I feel something in the 6.5-6.8 is what is needed or what I call Goldylocks, not too big, not too small. I wish someone would work on that and solve that issue. The .270 Win would be it were it not for its case length...anyone necked down a 308 to .270 using the 308 case? But I digressed.

Put it on a diet, go 18 on the bbl, unless you are going for 800 yds 18 will have very little effect, flute it and look at the handguards and buttstock...

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10 years 11 months ago #31945 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR

10-76 wrote: I agree and respectfully disagree, but LOL at the weight comparo with the old M14s. :clap:

My last gig actually had us with M14s that almost nobody could qual. with at 100 yds: they were that beat; bad guys are definitely safe there. What I used to hump to the ranges, I'm guessing, were the SP-1s, and man what a shooting difference in quality compared to the 6920s of today!

I'd disagree on purpose appointment, as it is dependent on where/what the shooter is at: I can leave a tower deer stand overlooking our open 900m field, walk 20m into the woods, throw the rifle into the trunk and take it to L.E. work as it has been approved. I'd certainly take the 6920 to a 3-gun match, but I also have enough 7.62 on hand to use it in a pinch with confidence. I'm not trying to pick a debate, just chewing on morning coffees.. I'd definitely rather sneak hunt the woods with ANY T, rather than the Eclipse .300W.M..

Yes, it comes down to weight reduction for me anyway, barrel length, and proprietary parts swapping aspects: barrels, mags, and bits. Speaking of: what is the weight difference between one of the 20 round LR P-Mags, and an AL 20 rd unit? IIRC, somebody had weighed an AL mag loaded coming in at 5 pounds on it's own?

So more questions: what is the collapsible stock of preference, and what's the weight savings there? Does anybody here actually consider a scope's weight before buying? I really like the free-float tube that came on the T, what's there to improve on there, weight-wise?

Caliber swap: The varying reviews on 6.5/6.8/300 BLK have me just plain keeping a distance to wait and see. Reading reviews by the match U.S. Army team guys, they equate the 300 BLK as lobbing rainbows much beyond 200m, but I figure they're just shaking down for real-time with suppressors anyway?

Looking at the SPR platforms I came across this company;
www.nemesisarms.com/nemesis_arms_products.html

5 calibers from 1 platform, with just a 30 second barrel swap? Holy smokes.




OleCowboy wrote: Weight, what weight...LOL never forget the first time I picked up a M 16 I nearly threw it across the room as I was not expecting a rifle that light.

As for your question:
"A question in the question: What do you see as being the general purpose? Paper, steel, comp., SHTF, battle, L.E. work? Is your GP 7.62 going from deer camp to big dollar training camp"

That is a long stretch. I personally feel the .308 is more than needed for all of those. From a size standpoint I feel something in the 6.5-6.8 is what is needed or what I call Goldylocks, not too big, not too small. I wish someone would work on that and solve that issue. The .270 Win would be it were it not for its case length...anyone necked down a 308 to .270 using the 308 case? But I digressed.

Put it on a diet, go 18 on the bbl, unless you are going for 800 yds 18 will have very little effect, flute it and look at the handguards and buttstock...

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I am with you

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10 years 11 months ago - 10 years 11 months ago #31992 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR

SOC wrote:

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This looks pretty close to what I at least would envision it. For myself I might want to add an adjustable cheekpiece.
Last edit: 10 years 11 months ago by Siscowet.

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10 years 11 months ago #32573 by maskman228
Replied by maskman228 on topic The perfect general purpose 308 AR
The 7mm08 would be a short action 270win. Solution.And a very capable weapon, general purpose at its finest.

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