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11 years 5 months ago #22487 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Zombies!
If the SHTF I think early on the ACE cards are held by the small unit, this is the loners and family units like Marley was talking about. For the long haul the 'commune' as sicco referred to is what will survive.

I am a loner, always have been but that does not preclude a few with me, not larger than a fire team. I have a good hunting dog so meat is not a problem, I will drink from almost anything that is wet and have never got sick from it. As long as its not to cold for too long I can survive. I would leave my AR10 behind and grab my AR 15. The 5.56 is all I need where I live...that said if I expect I may have engage the enemy then I bring my AR10 so I can kill him before he arrives. Choice of weapon should be driven by the terrain of your AO and expected use. For most of us the AR15 is more than enough to survive on.

Having said all that I most likely will stay where I am. I am at the military crest of a hill, I face due south, have a deep well and livestock, on a clear day I can see the nearest town about 8+ miles away. Little need for me to move out unless there is trouble to be expected, even then you have to drive up a road on my property to get to my house...the only way in is to know the gate code, if you are driving up my road and I did not give you the gate code it won't be a good day for you or your car...I will dial 911 or as I like to say, I dial AR10

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11 years 5 months ago - 11 years 5 months ago #22488 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Zombies!
Was "Sicco" intended?
The thing about scenarios is just that. The only guarantee is that things will unfold in a way no one expects them to. The best plan is to be flexible enough to have a plan b or c or be able to make one up based on the challenges facing you.I could lay in a stock of supplies, only to discover a bigger or stronger group has plans to take them. Intel is going to be as important as anything else. Camouflage is sometimes looking so ordinary that no one has a reason to take an interest in you. Kind of like Bill Murray in "Zombieland". (As long as we are on Zombies). Or looking so desperate to survive, that nobody knows you have anything. The truly amazing thing is how many people have become preppers in the last few years. It is almost like a collective subconscious is saying "get ready".
Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by Siscowet.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtallen83

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11 years 5 months ago - 11 years 5 months ago #22491 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Zombies!

Siscowet wrote: Was "Sicco" intended?
The thing about scenarios is just that. The only guarantee is that things will unfold in a way no one expects them to. The best plan is to be flexible enough to have a plan b or c or be able to make one up based on the challenges facing you.I could lay in a stock of supplies, only to discover a bigger or stronger group has plans to take them. Intel is going to be as important as anything else. Camouflage is sometimes looking so ordinary that no one has a reason to take an interest in you. Kind of like Bill Murray in "Zombieland". (As long as we are on Zombies). Or looking so desperate to survive, that nobody knows you have anything. The truly amazing thing is how many people have become preppers in the last few years. It is almost like a collective subconscious is saying "get ready".

LOL, I did not catch it, no it certainly was not...but on the other hand :woohoo:

How right you are.

If you want to be successful or at least have a good chance at success in a post SHTF enviro then here are some suggestions you may to heed:

* Do not leave you AO. Go to any survival forum and the stories are abound about folks picking up and heading to some survival paradise that have in their head. You first problem is getting there, will there be fuel, open roads etc and most of all when you arrive you lose HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE and if you if do not think that is important ask in pro sports team. Take the SW US for instance. We got a booger down here that if you are not familiar with it, it can be a KILLER, in fact it is a killer. And its not just in the SW, all the way up to Kansas even. In fact on an operation at Ft Riley 2 soldiers lost their life from it, chain of command relieved. Ft Hood 3 soldiers died from it. Bug, spider, snake? not hardly! In many parts of the US rain comes hard and fast and dry can last a long time. The result is dry creek beds. Always a GREAT place to camp and setup for the night. Slightly below ground level, trees, natural shelter and then about 2 am here comes that fast moving storm, it will last 3 hrs drop 3 in of rain and you wake up on your air mattress feeling like Noah. How bad, how quick. Ft Hood in a Division operation, doing a night movement to contact and withdrawal in the early am, Cow Creek rose enough from the rain storm that it flipped a tank upside down, trucks, APC's, its was a disaster and yet less than 6 hrs earlier we had driven across in our Jeeps and not even get the rims wet.

Take away: Stay in the AO you know and have worked and confidence in. Which is NOT to say, stay where you are at.

* Plan and prepare to travel light and mostly live off the land. You CANNOT carry enough stuff to support you for more than about 72 hrs under high caloric output. Combat soldiers often hit 10,000 cals per day in energy consumption and almost all lose weight. I lost 90 lbs in Korea and about 60 lbs in Vietnam. I see far too many guys with vision of sugar plums in their rucksacks, everything but a wet bar and still trying to convince themselves it only weighs 35 lbs and they are carrying 5 gals of water.

* As sisco pointed out have more than one plan. In amongst all the manuals you have bought to read about Navy SEALs and SoF etc (NONE of which will ever make you even remotely qualified to do anything) I suggest you pick up the ONE Army pub that truly will help you. Not sure what it maybe be labeled today, but in my day it was FM 100-5 Operations. I would LEARN how to write a Ops Order (COMPLETE) the 'backwards' planning cycle and 'course of action(s)' [CoA] development. If you will do those things you will understand what sisco was talking about in the planning cycle. You will also understand thru the Ops Order and what it takes to support, which will floor you, but its an incredible check list for things to consider. The CoA will give you your best 3 plans and the backwards planning cycle will insure accurate timelines...some of you might note I have spent a lot of time as an Ops Officer in the S/G-3 shop. IMO you will never learn more on how to be a success be it in corp America or the battlefield than working in a combat Co, Bn, Bde and Div.

All the nifty cute little Bear Gryllis books only teach you techniques of how to suck dirty water thru a straw, works great if you got a straw and a camera crew of about 20+. But NONE of that will insure survival if there are zombies or bad guys out there, if you arrive ill prepared, mostly because you have a ruck full of JUNK you will throw aways as you travel. You have to plan and KNOW how to plan, know the terrain and use it in your favor. If you know how to maneuver, have a checklist to things you NEED (NOT want), know how to move then trust me you will figure out how to suck water thru a straw you do not have.
Last edit: 11 years 5 months ago by OleCowboy.

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11 years 5 months ago #22492 by Dabu
Replied by Dabu on topic Zombies!
One crappy thing about being a lone wolf, would be the lonely part.

Say if you do something so epic, like something you see in the movies, or you got away with something with so much luck..... who would you tell besides your nice dog?

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11 years 5 months ago #22494 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Zombies!

OleCowboy wrote:

Siscowet wrote: Was "Sicco" intended?
The thing about scenarios is just that. The only guarantee is that things will unfold in a way no one expects them to. The best plan is to be flexible enough to have a plan b or c or be able to make one up based on the challenges facing you.I could lay in a stock of supplies, only to discover a bigger or stronger group has plans to take them. Intel is going to be as important as anything else. Camouflage is sometimes looking so ordinary that no one has a reason to take an interest in you. Kind of like Bill Murray in "Zombieland". (As long as we are on Zombies). Or looking so desperate to survive, that nobody knows you have anything. The truly amazing thing is how many people have become preppers in the last few years. It is almost like a collective subconscious is saying "get ready".

LOL, I did not catch it, no it certainly was not...but on the other hand :woohoo:

No problem We don't always agree and it would be kinda boring if we did. :dual:

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11 years 5 months ago #22496 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Zombies!

Dabu wrote: One crappy thing about being a lone wolf, would be the lonely part.

Say if you do something so epic, like something you see in the movies, or you got away with something with so much luck..... who would you tell besides your nice dog?

You certainly have a point. That said YOUR NUMBER 1 objective is to: Survive!!! You are not there to conduct offensive or defensive ops.

The MAJOR FLAW in all this post SHTF stuff is your ability to support your self or what we call your 'logistics tail'. Our military is the most successful in the world because of our ability to support the soldier on the ground.

In fact the entire military, Army, Navy, AF, Marines, you name it has a mission: To support the soldiers who: 'close with and engage the enemy". No war has ever been won without boots on the ground. AF can drop bombs, Navy can send 16" ordnance, Marines can establish the beachhead and all of that is to support some boots on in the bloody arena.

For this reason for every boot on the killing fields there are as many as 25 folks supporting him.

How many combat soldiers in Vietnam? Somewhere between 250,000 - 350,000 TOTAL from '65-'75, yet total troop strength was about 2.5 Million (uniformed).

Kinda knocks a hole in the threads on the Survival forums that some guy and his buddies are gonna go out and be a survival machine.

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11 years 5 months ago #22498 by Dabu
Replied by Dabu on topic Zombies!
:I-agree:

I used to pick on the supply guys in my unit, they'd always have some gay saying like, "bullets don't fly without supply."


If I was the last guy on earth, I think I'd die of insanity because of loneliness. Especially after my nice dog dies :(

I'd like someone to bury me, or at least burn me like one of those cook viking funerals or something. I wouldn't want to be a zombie :laugh:

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11 years 5 months ago #22499 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Zombies!

Dabu wrote: :I-agree:

I used to pick on the supply guys in my unit, they'd always have some gay saying like, "bullets don't fly without supply."


If I was the last guy on earth, I think I'd die of insanity because of loneliness. Especially after my nice dog dies :(

I'd like someone to bury me, or at least burn me like one of those cook viking funerals or something. I wouldn't want to be a zombie :laugh:

:I-agree:
Back in my late 20's I went through a loner stage. Not really antisocial, I just wanted to push myself and see what and where I could do alone. I had a lot of fun, learned to be pretty self reliant, as much as I wanted to be, but in the end I discovered I was more of a social animal than I thought. Being by yourself gets old after a while. Check out the show "Survivor Man" if you haven't already. It changes the social dynamic entirely.
Kind of like wolves. If you have ever seen a wolf in a trap, the way they act, you would never think they were a killer. They actually are very docile. Get them in a pack environment, that very docile animal is part of a larger whole that allows it to become a very efficient killing machine. The reason? It is genetically programmed to dedicate itself to the success and survival of the pack. I think humans have some of that same programming in our genes. We are programmed to be a social animal. I know back then, loneliness was the thing I struggled with most on extended wilderness trips.. After that I did a lot of the same trips and challenges as a group. I enjoyed it a lot more, and with division of labor it was a lot easier.

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11 years 5 months ago #22503 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Zombies!

Siscowet wrote:

Dabu wrote: :I-agree:

I used to pick on the supply guys in my unit, they'd always have some gay saying like, "bullets don't fly without supply."


If I was the last guy on earth, I think I'd die of insanity because of loneliness. Especially after my nice dog dies :(

I'd like someone to bury me, or at least burn me like one of those cook viking funerals or something. I wouldn't want to be a zombie :laugh:

:I-agree:
Back in my late 20's I went through a loner stage. Not really antisocial, I just wanted to push myself and see what and where I could do alone. I had a lot of fun, learned to be pretty self reliant, as much as I wanted to be, but in the end I discovered I was more of a social animal than I thought. Being by yourself gets old after a while. Check out the show "Survivor Man" if you haven't already. It changes the social dynamic entirely.
Kind of like wolves. If you have ever seen a wolf in a trap, the way they act, you would never think they were a killer. They actually are very docile. Get them in a pack environment, that very docile animal is part of a larger whole that allows it to become a very efficient killing machine. The reason? It is genetically programmed to dedicate itself to the success and survival of the pack. I think humans have some of that same programming in our genes. We are programmed to be a social animal. I know back then, loneliness was the thing I struggled with most on extended wilderness trips.. After that I did a lot of the same trips and challenges as a group. I enjoyed it a lot more, and with division of labor it was a lot easier.

I would say you are right.

My teen years spent on the ranch way out in the country. Nearest friend was well over a mile away. So I learned to do a lot of things by myself. Went in the Army and while its a team unit enviro there is still lots of individualism. Vietnam found me as an OpCon soldier bouncing from unit to unit albeit most of my time was with the 1st Cav but I was always being pulled for some operation...I was with the ARVN, Korean White Horse Rangers, 5the Mech, 173 rd Abn and a host of others that would take some time to remember even. And more than once in unit rotations I found myself sitting out in the jungle ALONE. Generally a Company sized element would leave out on the same helicopters that brought in the replacements...BUT NOT always. I remember the first time as I stood and watched the skids nose down off some hilltop we were on and suddenly the reality that I am there by myself. :ohmy: :ohmy:

Most often right after breakfast they would do the exchange and of course it was daylight, rare that VC/NVA attached by light of day and I was sitting in an emplaced position as we had been there for a week or so, but still a LONG way from anywhere sometimes as 30++ min helicopter ride to get back to the Bn location..

I also operated independently as I was my own show and not often did I occupy the same space on the LZ that the unit was at. I was sometimes even off the LZ in an OP alone. I remember one time I had been there since breakfast and it was now into the early eve and no unit. I spun the radio dial until I found some American traffic and requested a radio relay as to where the heck is the unit I did not relish being out there alone in a hot AO. Well they had sent out a company element but it was not laid out like the last unit. I was with a forward Plt on a hill top about the size of a 2 car garage and they had decided to not send anyone back...YEA, great idea except they forgot me...LOL. They ended up sending over a couple of squads who got there right before dark.

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