handloading for gas operated semiautos

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15 years 11 months ago #737 by Hank in Arkansas
handloading for gas operated semiautos was created by Hank in Arkansas
I've had my fairly new AR10 out to the range several times now, and have fed it a bunch of factory and handloaded ammo. I've also been looking at all my available reference material on handloading it and my M1A. I've got 40+ years handloading experience, and am an NRA certified handloading instructor, but there's always new stuff to learn.

It's rare that I run into info on loading that gets me excited; usually I read stuff that is a rehash of stuff I already know. Here's an exception that I highly recommend to anyone with a military style gas operated autoloader like the AR10. Sierra's loading manual 5th edition, published in 2003, has an article entitled "Gas Gun Reloading", pages 165 thru 182. If you load for your AR10, AR15 or M1/M1A/M14 (or others), it's a "must" read. I also highly recommend you spend some time on the Armalite website and read all the "tech notes". I'm constantly refining my loading techniques, as I learn stuff and see new and better tools available.

By the way, after reading this Sierra article, it's no wonder Armalite has to discourage the use of handloading ammo.

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15 years 11 months ago #740 by crux
Replied by crux on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
Interesting tip, will have to check it out.

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15 years 11 months ago #743 by featherblue
Replied by featherblue on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
If I cannot find the 5th edition of the Sierra Loading manual, I wonder if this info is in a later edition?

Thanks for posting this!

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15 years 11 months ago #746 by Hank in Arkansas
Replied by Hank in Arkansas on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
I'm pretty sure the Sierra 5th ed. is the latest one. I'm still researching this topic, and here's something I've concluded. The internet now allows a lot more communication on specialized topics; as a result, in the last few years, it's coming to light that there are lots more accidents involving bad ammo in military style gas operated rifles than we used to know of. We used to think only idiots blew up their rifles. Now we're seeing reliable info indicating that marginal handloads AND some bad factory ammo can result in rifle destruction. "Slam fires" used to be thought of as just a product of high primers, and that certainly remains the primary cause. However, the very design of these rifles is a contributing factor. Also, resizing dimensions are absolutely critical to safe loads. Sierra even points out that how a shooter loads the rifle is a factor. Much of Sierra's advice is echoed in the tech notes at Armalite. Other AR manufacturers are saying the same stuff. More and more, I'm coming to think that handloading for the gas operated military style rifles is an advanced handloading challenge, and not something to be taken lightly, especially by the novice handloader. There's lots of info in the www.ar15.com forum on this too. Don't get me wrong, I still intend to handload for my Mini-14, M1A and AR10B. But I'm investing in some newer dies, gauges, different primers, etc., and I'm using some different techniques.

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15 years 11 months ago #748 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
Thank you, Hank for that post. It would be really nice if anyone with the 5th edition of the Sierra manual would post those pages on reloading the semioauto on this websight. My Sierra manual was printed in 1971. I tried to go online and buy the 5th edition, just to get this info, and it is on backorder no matter where I check. I tried googling the article and couldn't find it. Iv'e got time, because the rcbs reloader I ordered is back ordered too and it is too cold to shoot right now and I won't have any brass to reload till I shoot some more. I am attaching a document on reloading the semiauto that I found when searching for the Sierra manual info. I'm interested in any comments from you guys on this article's information. I haven't reloaded for the ar 10t, yet, but in the past,all my problems with bolt action rifle and semiauto pistol or revolver reloads have come from improper resizing of the case,and improper seating of the primer. Slam fires were never an issue with the guns I reloaded in the past. Doesn't sound like something I ever want to experience.

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15 years 11 months ago #749 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
I guess the article I tried to attach wouldn't . It is called "reloading the semi-automatic rifle" by David Kenoch in Western Shooter, a free on-line magazine.

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15 years 11 months ago #750 by Hank in Arkansas
Replied by Hank in Arkansas on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
I just read the Kenoch article online. I won't quarrel with anything he wrote. I think most handloaders would agree that his techniques are very thorough, careful, and pretty advanced. He's making absolutely sure of his resizing dimensions and his primer seating. I too have used lots of different primers in semiautos with no problem, but I have made the personal decision to switch to the CCI milspec primers. I figure why not take every safety measure I can. Besides, I happen to like CCI in general. Been using them for years.

Novice handloaders aren't likely to be as thorough as Kenoch. Likewise, old timers like me are likely to get careless due to "know it all" syndrome. That's why I'm reviewing all my reloading techniques for my gas operated guns. I'm even trying a variety of resizing dies, just to see which is giving me optimum fit in MY guns. I'm using gauges, calipers, micrometers, Lee Factory Crimp Dies, etc., all in an effort to make the safest ammo I can. I'm even checking my "third world" surplus 7.62mm stockpile.

I don't feel comfortable in scanning and posting Sierra's manual pages, as it's copyrighted. Sierra is a great handloading supplier and I don't want to rip them off. I hope you guys understand.

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15 years 11 months ago #751 by featherblue
Replied by featherblue on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
I checked the Sierra site last night and the latest edition of their manual is the 5th. They are out of stock. :(

I want to reload my AR-10 brass but definately want to be totally educated first.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

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15 years 11 months ago #752 by Hank in Arkansas
Replied by Hank in Arkansas on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
I hope my postings here haven't scared anyone away from reloading for the AR10 completely. Rather, I simply hope that every AR10 owner reads all they can about it, and then takes to heart the need to be very careful and thorough. My experience (tested again last week) showed me that my M1A is fairly tolerant of resized cases that aren't "minimum". On the other hand, my AR10 is prone to failure to go into battery with any ammo that's larger than "minimum". That scare's me, so I'm now being very careful to use small base dies; in fact, I see no reason not to change over to them for both rifles. I'm also using a Wilson gauge to check a large sample of each batch I load. I've also found out that the Redding SB die does a better job than my RCBS SB die; no knock on RCBS here, but that's just how it seems in MY rifle. I've also converted to a Lee Factory Crimp die. Taper crimping just seemed marginal, and sometimes resulted in bulged case necks or set back shoulders. I may (not sure yet) experiment with dies that have replacable neck sizing bushings so I can control case neck-to-bullet tension. ALL factory ammo I've tried (Venezualen, So African, Remington, Federal) has worked flawlessly. I've gauged all of it, and it's dimensioned about like my handloads using the small base dies.

Another thing I've noticed: After about 3 or 4 reloadings, case rims get pretty beat up. That can result in them not going easily into the Wilson gauge. Obviously, that could also interfere with smooth feeding from the magazine into the chamber of the rifle. Anything that interferes with feeding could cause a failure to properly chamber.

A couple days ago I rec'd my shipment of primers from Natchez Shooting Supplies, including a bunch of the CCI #34 military style 7.62mm primers. I haven't tried them yet, but plan to soon. I'll post some feedback. I also plan to post some load data, but I need more time to test loads. My loads won't set any speed records, as my objective is safe, reliable practice loads and some very accurate match / target loads.

I'm happy to keep this thread going if it's helpful. If I'm just making trouble, then I'll drop it. But I do firmly believe that safety is the primary goal of handloading. Velocity, accuracy, saving money, etc., is all secondary.

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15 years 11 months ago #753 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic Re:handloading for gas operated semiautos
you are making me nervous, but keep the thread going. There doesn't seem to be much information out there and hearing from everyone's experience with reloading the ar10 would be very helpful.

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