Carbines vs rifles?

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10 years 5 months ago #40844 by Lizardette
Replied by Lizardette on topic Carbines vs rifles?
I like rifles, because my mind is always on long range.

Barrel length *may* not affect group size, but it does effect velocity, and more velocity means that at any given range you have less bullet drop to deal with, less wind deflection, and more retained energy. For those reasons, a longer barrel increases your effective range.

That said, I think the longest barrel I have on a high capacity semi-automatic .308 is 22" - on my M14s. On my LR308 in particular, it's 20". The shortest is on my HK91, at 17.7". Given a chance, I'll build a couple of uppers for the LR308 that have longer barrels and I'll probably put a longer one on the HK as well.
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10 years 5 months ago #40881 by silver78
Replied by silver78 on topic Carbines vs rifles?
As others have stated above, I think the right tool for the job depends on what you want to do with your rifle. As someone who has owned an AR10 since the Clinton AWB I have the following thoughts/observations for your consideration.

The shorter barreled AR platform 308 (16") has gotten a lot more popular in the last 10 years when compared to rifle length barrels of say 20" - 24". When I started with the 308 AR most folks had a longer barrel and the 16" barreled carbine was the minority. That has certainly changed.

While most people realize that you give up some velocity with the shorter barrel they seem to forget about the noise factor. A short barreled 308 with factory ammo is LOUD.

Which brings up a related point. Most 308 factory ammo is optimized for barrels that are in the 20+ inch length. Just look at the longer barrel lengths offered for a Remington 700 in 308. So if you want to go with a shorter barrel consider reloading so you can use a powder/bullet combination that works best on a shorter barrel.

Finally, if you want a shorter AR platform rifle with more punch than the 5.56 consider the 6.8. It was designed from the ground up with a 16" barrel so the powders in factory loads are already set up for the shorter barrel. For many folks a 16 inch barreled 6.8 may be a great compromise between the puny 5.56 and the full sized 308 platforms.
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10 years 5 months ago #40883 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Carbines vs rifles?
Good point on the Ammo Silver, do you know any powder bullet combo reload recipes for .308 carbines? That would be nice to know.

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10 years 5 months ago #40884 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic Carbines vs rifles?
Check out this article from the Truth about guns:
The Truth About Barrel Length, Muzzle Velocity and Accuracy
By Dan Zimmerman on October 1, 2013
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10 years 5 months ago #40886 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Carbines vs rifles?

foxhunter wrote: Check out this article from the Truth about guns:
The Truth About Barrel Length, Muzzle Velocity and Accuracy
By Dan Zimmerman on October 1, 2013

No linky

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10 years 5 months ago #40888 by MrMarty51
Replied by MrMarty51 on topic Carbines vs rifles?
This is a very interesting topic. Thank You for posting this.
As I see it, I do not feel that the 16 or 18 inch barrels will have any problem reaching that 500 yards and still holding a nice gropin ................................., oooops, I mean grouping. :busted: :rotfl:

:nicethread:

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10 years 5 months ago #40893 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Carbines vs rifles?

foxhunter wrote: Check out this article from the Truth about guns:
The Truth About Barrel Length, Muzzle Velocity and Accuracy
By Dan Zimmerman on October 1, 2013

Foxhunter, I just dug that article up, and it is excellent.
Below everyone is the link for it.

www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel...locity-and-accuracy/

We should make a separate thread just about that. I am still digesting what I just read, but it does turn conventional wisdom on its head.
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10 years 5 months ago #40898 by silver78
Replied by silver78 on topic Carbines vs rifles?

Siscowet wrote: Good point on the Ammo Silver, do you know any powder bullet combo reload recipes for .308 carbines? That would be nice to know.


Sorry I don't reload and my AR10 sports a 22 inch barrel so factory 308s work fine for me. My shorter barreled rifles (both 5.56 and 6.8)all wear 18 inch barrels. The 3 gun fad has produced a lot of demand for them so they are easier to find. I like the 18" because it the shortest barrel you can get in 5.56 with a rifle length gas system. If anyone here wants an 18" 5.56 or 6.8 barrel I suggest White Oak Armament. If you just want a complete 18" 5.56 upper I suggest White Oak (top quality) or Stag (great price/value).

Here's my summary take on short vs. long:

Short:
+Easier to carry and use in tight quarters
+Lighter
-Louder
-Less Velocity

Long:
+More velocity
+Less noise
-Heavier
-Not as quick for moving around in close quarters

I think accuracy is the same in short vs. long so it's not a consideration.
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10 years 5 months ago #40902 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Carbines vs rifles?

silver78 wrote:

Siscowet wrote: Good point on the Ammo Silver, do you know any powder bullet combo reload recipes for .308 carbines? That would be nice to know.


Sorry I don't reload and my AR10 sports a 22 inch barrel so factory 308s work fine for me. My shorter barreled rifles (both 5.56 and 6.8)all wear 18 inch barrels. The 3 gun fad has produced a lot of demand for them so they are easier to find. I like the 18" because it the shortest barrel you can get in 5.56 with a rifle length gas system. If anyone here wants an 18" 5.56 or 6.8 barrel I suggest White Oak Armament. If you just want a complete 18" 5.56 upper I suggest White Oak (top quality) or Stag (great price/value).

Here's my summary take on short vs. long:

Short:
+Easier to carry and use in tight quarters
+Lighter
-Louder
-Less Velocity

Long:
+More velocity
+Less noise
-Heavier
-Not as quick for moving around in close quarters

I think accuracy is the same in short vs. long so it's not a consideration.


I would like to see decibel tests conducted. As for less/more velocity, my research shows that it is not significant when comparing bbls that are close (within 2 in). Its only when you begin comparing a 16 in with a 22 in (in example). When the variation is only about 150 fps the terminals are near identical.

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10 years 5 months ago #40905 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic Carbines vs rifles?
siscowet,
Thanks for providing the link. This article has definitely changed some of my previous conceptions on accuracy as well as sighting in, and is sending me back to the bench with my AR's to do some more testing

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