Carbines vs rifles?

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10 years 5 months ago - 10 years 5 months ago #40756 by Siscowet
Carbines vs rifles? was created by Siscowet
When it comes to the AR10 and 308 AR carbines and rifles in general, what is your preference, and why? I thought I Would prefer a carbine, but now I am not so sure. The jury is still out in my case. I like the handiness of the carbine, but right now because of familiarity and confidence in it, I lean towards the rifle. That could change, once I get more familiar with the carbine, but we will need to find out over the next few months.
Veterans, maybe not with 308, but what is your sandbox and jungle experience with both of them, and what are your preferences in general? Does that change with a 308 vs a 5.56?
Last edit: 10 years 5 months ago by Siscowet.

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10 years 5 months ago #40757 by Ranchwagon
Replied by Ranchwagon on topic Carbines vs rifles?
I prefer a rifle, for the most part you get a little more bullet velocity and more long range capacity. For what I use it for, mostly shooting, I think it as a little more accurate.

If I was still crewing a helicopter, I think I would prefer the carbine because it's easier to stow and handle in the constraints of the cabin.

I guess the real answer depends upon what you plan on doing with it.

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10 years 5 months ago - 10 years 5 months ago #40759 by Charlie
Replied by Charlie on topic Carbines vs rifles?
One compromise I made when I went with the AR platform was that I gave up the collapsible stock. My previous system, the HK 9X series platform, had a true telescoping stock. With the stock collapsed the rifle is barely longer than the barrel and action because no buffer tube. I gave that up because of the Armlite AR-10's superior accuracy.

I am willing to entertain the notion that an AR type carbine stock is useful to some, but a 5 inch decrease in the rifle's OAL isn't significant for my application.

Charlie
Last edit: 10 years 5 months ago by Charlie.

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10 years 5 months ago - 10 years 5 months ago #40760 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Carbines vs rifles?
I have a standard A2 stock on all my AR15's and AR10's. Why? Muscle memory and commonality. The same reason that all my scope mounts and red dots are set the same height. I can use exactly the same cheek weld to get exactly the same sight picture on all of them. I thought about a Magpul PRS for the carbine, but I would have had to change all my rifles if I did that. And that would be $1000 of Magpuls. Until I am given a good reason to change, that is what I will keep on all of them.
Obtaining a consistent sight picture, and training your body and subconscious to automatically assume that sight picture position is more important than many people realize for consistent accuracy. By minimizing differences between my AR's I reduce the amount I have to override my natural body positioning to prepare for a shot. I believe that helps me improve my accuracy with all my AR's, and improves my reaction times, and at age 65, I need all the help I can get in that regard!
Last edit: 10 years 5 months ago by Siscowet.
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10 years 5 months ago #40790 by jdizzle3id
Replied by jdizzle3id on topic Carbines vs rifles?
I've done 2 tours in Iraq and been issued an m4, m16, m24, and a xm107 at various times. For driving around Baghdad doing patrols and building searches I preferred the m4. For qualifying at the range I preferred the m16. For observation post and counter sniper operations I preferred the Barrett (I never had to carry it very far though). For shooting competitions at the FOB I liked the m24. My personal ar10 is rifle length as I see it as more of a precision weapon than a battle rifle. My personal ar15 is a carbine for the opposite reasons. So there's my opinion.
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10 years 5 months ago #40791 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Carbines vs rifles?
Sounds like "Use the right tool for the right job."

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10 years 5 months ago #40807 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Carbines vs rifles?
For some reason gun bbls in the AR family are either < 16" or >20".

I can tell you in the jungles of Vietnam, the Piney woods of E Texas, the Mesquite of S Tex, the Central highlands of Ca from San Fran S to just N of LA, Ga, FL, Va, Md, Ks, Ak, Hi, Wa, Korea, Ger, most of Europe except the Med, Latin America, S America the carbine is your friend. Head to the ME across the 'stan' countries, Israel, N Africa, most of Aus its rifle time.

Just try to remove a water pump on a Chevy V8 using a pipe wrench...right tool for the job at hand.

This takes me to my opening statement. I was wanting to do a build, a high end build top end components. Almost every bbl maker I went to would not build a 18" bbl, always saying its less accurate than a 20"..yes it is.

So time for some research: It was not easy but I was able to pull up data on bbl lengths from 10.5 all the way out to 26". Not all was using the same ammo or loads or even the same gun other than AR format. Here is what I found:

fps and accuracy and other measured data. The difference between bbl at about 2" intervals: 10.5, 12, 14, 16, 20, 22, 24, 26 (could not find enough data on 18" bbl). The difference in bbl length is fairly linear across the lengths. example only: 26" = 3200 fps; 24" = 3000 fps, etc. Point: the measured data in bbl lengths is not on the order of magnitude unless you take the difference between a 26 and a 10.5 (for example), the diff between 26 and 24 is minor, but remember it does add up!

All this begs the question: WHAT is the accuracy REQUIREMENT? I PERSONALLY say its 'pie plate'. Standard pie plate is 9 inches. Size of a humans head, chest shot, Deer, Elk, Bear, Rino and we can go on and on. Get it in the pie plate in a critical zone and its going down!

That said this is not going to be a poster child for the Target and Sniper set.

Then for most us, especially if you are a soldier or hunter, pie plate accuracy works for you. Then the only question is typical engagement range of your area of operations? For most of the AO's in the aforementioned sentence it would be between 50 and 150 yds. The other place such as the ME, its 150 ++++ or "Designated Marksman" space.

Finally, using this data and posing the question carbine <16" or rifle >20" is there not a compromise at 18"?????? IF so then why is the 18" bbl length almost void?

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10 years 5 months ago #40809 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Carbines vs rifles?
My new ArmaLite M15 upper has an 18" target barrel.
Here is the complete rifle;

www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15TB...f1-89bf-df84e8fd90f4

I've got to send my upper back to get the rail lined up properly so it might be a month or two before I get the range report.........

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10 years 5 months ago #40810 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Carbines vs rifles?

jtallen83 wrote: My new ArmaLite M15 upper has an 18" target barrel.
Here is the complete rifle;

www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15TB...f1-89bf-df84e8fd90f4

I've got to send my upper back to get the rail lined up properly so it might be a month or two before I get the range report.........

That is a new rifle in their line up. While I doubt myh long discussion with them at the NRA show had anything to do with it, I brought that that, why no 18 as a middle of the road. I think its a void that should have never been there and needs to be filled...

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10 years 5 months ago #40811 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Carbines vs rifles?
I need time to find it's favorite load, but my reason for purchasing an AR10T carbine, was to see if it would be possible to get the best of both worlds. It is 1 pound less than the standard AR10 rifle, and quite a bit shorter, but still has that rigid stainless bull barrel, but in 16 inches. If it gives me comparable accuracy out to 500 yards, but in a lighter handier version, it will have accomplished my goal. Next week I will be testing my revamped 175 grain loads in it along with some standard 147 gr M80's. I will do a report.
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