Its just lunch

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11 years 6 months ago #25943 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Its just lunch
It doesn't piss me off, but it is a cause for concern since, as Dabu pointed out, such a thing could include me, and do so far too easily. Slippery slope and all that, is what I am trying to say. I know I am fine, you know you are fine, but the person out there making the decision about mental fitness may not care for anything other than disarming people through a loophole that can't even be proven by any scientific standard.
It is literally the power to say you are nuts because the guy with the degree said so. Sure, some people are obviously moonbrained, they voted for obama twice after all, but my concern is for those of us that are not, but could fall under the interpretation.

I do not want to see unstable people armed either, but it is far too easy already to have that label put on you when it doesn't truthfully apply.
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11 years 6 months ago #25946 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Its just lunch
And the NRA will most likely go right along with this mental aspect so they they can crow about their relevance. If you see or know someone that has stability issues related to firearms and violence it is your job as a citizen to act. Act, as in trying to help not throwing the person under the bus. If Chris Kyle were in this conversation what side do you think he would be on? Everything I know of the public man tells me he would say leave the troop alone and let his brothers work it out with him. You will only make things worse for the person with issues by taking rights away, part of their issue is a lack of public understanding and support. We need to follow Chris's idea and put our arms around these people, give them our support. Support doesn't mean a new VA program from on high, it means friends and neighbors getting involved. Life will always contain tragedy, the one thing it doesn't need is government meddling in every tragedy.
The NRA needs to back up and do some soul searching. They have excellent safety programs, if they are not going to fight to repeal ALL restrictions on our 2nd amendment rights then they should just stick to what they are good at, training and museums.
Go back a 75 years when you could buy a Thompson from the hardware store, the only problems that arose from this was big government and prohibition. Without government meddling in society we would still have our true 2nd amendment rights. Read the federalist papers, they make it very clear that the purpose of the 2nd was to have American citizens armed with the latest military weapons, somehow the NRA has lost sight of this, maybe because the big shots there want to make sure they have a seat at the table of power, regardless who they sell out! :twocents:

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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #25947 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Its just lunch

faawrenchbndr wrote: This is no where near "just lunch"

While I am a Vet, I personally do not want a PTSD treated Vet to have a "free pass" to firearms ownership. Ever hear of Chris Kyle?


Do you think there is a chance that all these psychoactive drugs they push could cause these violence issues? I'm convinced they do. I have known some Vietnam vets that had what we now call PTSD. They may punch their wives in their sleep, jump at any loud noise, punch a guy who surprises them from behind, but how many were involved in shootings? 0 that I know, I've seen no credible study that shows they are any more likely to be involved in "gun violence" than the next citizen. Your rights should only be lost due to your actions, not what someone thinks you might do. Chris Kyle would never advocate the taking of a soldiers 2nd amendment rights based on a "diagnosis". I suggest you read up on the man and his history.

He talks and answers questions here for an hour, good insight to what he thinks; www.c-spanvideo.org/program/305347-1
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by jtallen83.

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11 years 6 months ago #25952 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Its just lunch

faawrenchbndr wrote: I did not state that PTSD equals loss of gun ownership rights. I stated there should not be a free pass for those with or diagnosed with PTSD to own them.

Kyle was killed by an individual suffering from PTSD......plain and simple.
Those that are unstable, should be evaluated.

That may piss you off,......but if you are thinking logically, you know it's they way the current guidelines are supposed to operate anyway.


The question is evaluated by who? A Dr. who has only had minimal contact or his family and friends that truly know him?

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11 years 6 months ago #25953 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Its just lunch
There is some linkage between PTSD and such behavior. That said PTSD comes in an array of flavors. There is PTSD that comes from those who fought in the bloody arena and those who did not. I know a guy personally who is rated 100% PTSD, he was in the Navy, was a non-combatant but the SOUND of the big guns firing gave him PTSD!

A key difference is that only the combat-PTSD have the "fight or flight" syndrome as I understand. This is what causes the violent behavior. The last thing you ever want to do is box in a combat vet, he is going to do what is needed to stop the situation.

The guy that killed Kyle, well I think I would look for other issues he had rather than PTSD. I do not think he was are felt threatened in any way. He had a weapon in his hands which is in fact a pacifier because it gives you a sense of well being in that you have something to defend yourself with.

Combat PTSD vets are quite easy to deal with. 1st back off and give space. What happens to him is that if the threat level rises enough the his vision goes tunnel, the world around him seems very dark and all he focuses on is the threat, if the threats goes away, retreats then his vision opens up and all things become in focus. What has happened in the past has been folks especially LEO's close in on him...for further insight watch: "Rambo - First Blood" and you will see classic combat PTSD.

While the VA does ask that question and I have no idea why, but I am told its due to the high rate of self inflicted death or wounding by vets with PTSD. Its a question of are you a threat to yourself.

You might notice that today just about everyone claims PTSD from carwrecks or just being at an air show and claiming PTSD after seeing a plane crash. In fact they do have PTSD, it usually lasts only a short time and melts away. They are not mentally ill anymore than a combat vet is. Its just that combat is not something you forget very easy...

Sidebar: I have always advocated that we as a military/VA classify those with COMBAT time as different from the rest of the clerks, spoons etc. This is not to say that those who actually fought in the bloody arena are better. Not the case at all. But rather they are different and should be treated as such.


All that said you must realize that the govt is dead set on taking away our guns as in confiscation and they will use any excuse they can to do so...ESPECIALLY with combat veterans who they perceive pose a threat. I have a full copy of a WEST POINT Paper that discusses this. Its U/FOUO classification and titled "Rightwing Extremism" it ties in with a similar study done by DHS which draws the same conclusions on folks like us.

The govt especially fears combat vets as we do not trust our govt to begin with since they lied to us. The govt wants badly to get the guns out of our hands...

I am a disabled veteran and 100% of my disabilities arose from combat. 75% or more of all disabled veterans recieve disability for NON-COMBAT issues. Such as having a car wreck on the way to work, falling down the stairs drunk. I also feel that only combat soldiers should be eligible for 20 year retirement, the rest should not draw retirement until a later date such as age 62. We could save a lot of money that way.


So will the govt come get your guns? No not at all you will give them up and here is why: The SCOUS has said that "Congress has unlimited power to tax, therefore Obamacare is only a tax". Pretty slick huh! They have records that you purchased a gun from a FFL holder x date. SO they put a tax on guns.

For an AR 10 its a tax of $500, AR 15 $400 etc etc. But single shot rifles and shotguns are exempt. The IRS will be the enforcer for Obamacare and the enforcer of gun taxes.

You get letter in mail and you have been taxed at the rate of $1500 for the 3 guns purchases you had over the past 5 years, since they (in theory) do not know what kind of gun you tax is at the max rate. To reduce your rate and or file for an exemption contact the IRS with proof of the type of guns purchased. Simple as that.

But you are hard core RKBA and they are not going to take your guns. Really. Later you get another letter from the Feds charging you with TAX EVASION. Now the Federal Marshals, FBI etc is on your case. IRS slaps a lein on your house for unpaid taxes (NOTE none of this paperwork says a single thing about guns). You end up in court, the potential for your life savings wiped out, your family and home all in disarray, life turned upside down. Bottom line either pay the tax or turn in your weapons or lose your home, business and a mountain of legal fees and the govt NEVER confiscated your gun...

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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #25955 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Its just lunch
I don't mean to sound flippant but the method of confiscation is irrelevant, I still say come get some. I'm sure I'm on some sort of list with a special note, I've told my local law enforcement to make sure and call in sick the day they come for my property, guns, house, car, whatever it is. I have submitted planks to the republican platform calling for secession and advocating a tax revolt. The ONLY way we will stop them is to cut off the money supply. Maybe if we all expressed ourselves this way they would start to reconsider.... just maybe. I will be fine with taking the first shot, they have been warned.
It is also important to express these views to all your neighbors, so far it still takes a jury of peers to convict.
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by jtallen83.

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11 years 6 months ago #25956 by faawrenchbndr
Replied by faawrenchbndr on topic Its just lunch
The only way to change this political goat rope is to vote everyone out!
Then they will start listening to the voters again
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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #25957 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Its just lunch

jtallen83 wrote: I don't mean to sound flippant but the method of confiscation is irrelevant, I still say come get some. I'm sure I'm on some sort of list with a special note, I've told my local law enforcement to make sure and call in sick the day they come for my property, guns, house, car, whatever it is. I have submitted planks to the republican platform calling for secession and advocating a tax revolt. The ONLY way we will stop them is to cut off the money supply. Maybe if we all expressed ourselves this way they would start to reconsider.... just maybe. I will be fine with taking the first shot, they have been warned.
It is also important to express these views to all your neighbors, so far it still takes a jury of peers to convict.

I disagree on that! NO they are not coming for you gun, simple as that, just pay the taxes on it! No one is going to show up at your house and say give me you gun...why, because of guys like YOU and ME. I would think a soldier like yourself who is familiar with UCMJ knows I do not have to charge you with what you did wrong, I have other ways 'conduct unbecoming' and a host of ways to nail you and NEVER EVER say what specifically you did wrong.

The govt KNOWS gun confiscation is a NO NO, bad words. So they will file a tax lein on your home instead at that point it has NOTHING to do with guns.

Obamacare, its a TAX, NOT medical care. If you chose not to go with it you just are not paying your taxes so you will get fined, simple as that.

The feds know that guy like me are as rare as chicken lips. I have NO family other than a wife, that it, I was an orphan. I get a letter telling me to pay the tax on guns obamacare or anything else and I will write on there CHUCK YOU! I am an old man, racked with pain and stuff that is going to cut my life short to begin with and I know it, so does the VA and so the govt when they sent me over there. No IRS agent will nail a Lein notice on my ranch, simple as that. I am only 1 single man and I only have one life to give, but I can take more than I can give so who wants to step up first. I will tell them: All you big ones pair off, you little one group up.

Govt - 1

Ole Cowboy - a bunch of'um
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by OleCowboy.

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11 years 6 months ago #25960 by mardad
Replied by mardad on topic Its just lunch
Great discourse!!!!!!
I guess I am the only one that thinks there will not be another election. I believe that POTUS will impose martial law "for the good of the people, because we are just too dumb to know what is good for us".
When that happens, it is warriors like yall and my sons that will be called upon to lead the rest of us. My sons are ready for this, as I believe the majority of yall are.
The sooner the fire is started, the sooner we can put it out and start over.
I sadly agree with JT that the NRA has capitulated to a point that they do not represent me.

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11 years 6 months ago #25962 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Its just lunch
I think that martial law and stopping elections would be boiling the water too fast. Even hardline leftists are having difficulty backing bongo after all that has been done.
If such a thing did happen it would be a huge loss for them, following the idea that things have to get bad enough for everyone to agree on how bad it is before things can get better.
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