Disaster and emergency response planning, preparation, training, and practice topics go here.

The knockout game.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31869 by Siscowet
The knockout game. was created by Siscowet
I am putting this under Survival because we don't have a self defense section. Most of you have probably heard about the not so new "Knockout game" where juveniles or young males try to catch a person unawares and "Knock them out" with one punch. It is becoming an issue in larger cities. Which brings up the concern: at what point if someone attempted this would deadly force be justified in protecting yourself.? In my days in Golden Gloves I saw how one punch could not only knock a person out, but permanently debilitate them. It is not pretty. I am interested in hearing some thoughts on this.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31870 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The knockout game.

Siscowet wrote: I am putting this under Survival because we don't have a self defense section. Most of you have probably heard about the not so new "Knockout game" where juveniles or young males try to catch a person unawares and "Knock them out" with one punch. It is becoming an issue in larger cities. Which brings up the concern: at what point if someone attempted this would deadly force be justified in protecting yourself.? In my days in Golden Gloves I saw how one punch could not only knock a person out, but permanently debilitate them. It is not pretty. I am interested in hearing some thoughts on this.


Remember the Gillette Friday Nights fights, one of the most popular sports shows on TV. Then Benny "The Kid" Paret was beat badly while hung up in the ropes, he was carried out of the ring and died along with the Friday Night Fights show.

No shortage of folks who have taken a hit or blows and died as a result. IF they lay a hand on you, blow them away, the law and history is on your side.

NOTE: The news media likes to call them the 'knockout game' but in fact its primarily black on white and called "polar bear hunting".

This is where you need a BIG and I mean BIG pistol like a S&W 500 Mag, the look alone would drop them in their tracks, even if you missed the shock wave would take them down.

I caught a robber in my home, heard him movement in the house and I was single. One afternoon and I had come home from work for some quiet time paperwork. I grabbed my office gun and slipped out the door. Youngish kid and I came up behind him. Told him to freeze as I put the muzzle next to his ear, raise hands and turn around. He did, eyes got BIG, mouth dropped open and I shoved the muzzle in his mouth, told him if he moved I would blow his head off.

We headed to the office and I told him to dialL 911 and tell them to send the police and tell them what wrong. Maybe one of the funniest conversations every on 911.

Cops get there we are on porch with my gun in his ear canal, I tell him to go out to car. He takes off running towards the cops like they were his daddy, arms outstretched and I hear him say arrest me man, this WHTE MAN IS GONNA KILL ME....

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

The following user(s) said Thank You: 10before15

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31872 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic The knockout game.
These days, I hate to even venture a GUESS as to when the call should be made - if at all and there is never a "ok you can shoot now" point or everything would be pretty damn simple.

The biggest problem is that you never really know what judges and juries and the whole damn legal system is going to pull out of their asses at any given moment anymore.

Years ago, all you had to do was reasonably prove that you were in fear for your life.

Nowadays, you have to practically BE dead with 10 men surrounding you, all with guns AND putting the boots to you before you even let em know you are armed.

It also depends on where you live. Some states may still have enough balls to make a good call whereas other states will be parading the dead guys friends and girl-friend, crying parents - saying what a great kid he was all over the tv while they make you out to be a gun totin loon with murder in your heart all day.

All I'll even suggest at this point is to use your best judgement, carry yourself like someone who should never be messed with (not like billy-bad-ass either, just confidently no matter what) and maintain a solid presence of mind at all times. If and when the need arises, all you can do is make the call "in the moment" and let the cards fall where they will. I also believe that since this game is preying upon "unsuspecting people" I believe if you simply turned and faced the "would be" assailant and be ready for him to arrive, most of them (not all but most) will probably just veer off and run the hell away since it's not the really TOUGH guys that are playing this game anyway from all I've seen.

Heck, most guys that really ARE a threat have probably already done enough damage to not even BE playing these stupid games.

Like I was taught in the Academy though - Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Personally though, I would much rather be tried for cracking his skull or some major bones with something hard as he approached than for shooting a guy that had yet to "prove" his intent.

I am never without some kind of protective device with me however I prefer not to "carry" under normal circumstances and I also prefer not to talk about the kinds of things I walk around with on me...

don't really want to be accused of setting a bad example ya know and I can probably get away with carrying different items better than the next fella. :)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31875 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The knockout game.
You shoot AFTER you have been hit...at that point in time it was attempted murder.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31876 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic The knockout game.
No. At that point, it is assault and attempting to prove intent to commit murder on a 16 year old kid is not a simple or cut and dried process no matter what - especially now that he has a bullet hole in his chest.

Besides, since they are also playing this in groups, the now "victim" of a shooting also has a half dozen witnesses that will state he was just minding his own business when some nut went crazy with a pistol.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago - 10 years 10 months ago #31879 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The knockout game.
You are confusing Assault, Aggravated Assault with Battery, Aggravated Battery. When they commit Battery your have the right to defend yourself, at that point in time they have had physical contact with you and a fist to the face is your shot to call on how you chose to defend yourself. When struck they have committed aggravated battery with intent to do serious harm or murder.

Assault does NOT mean you were physically contacted, that is battery. This can be as simple as knocking your hat off (battery) or throwing a pillow at you (battery), a fist to the face is aggravated battery, different intent.

You may want to look at the Trayvon Martin case. Martin committed Aggravated Battery, thus Zim felt his life was in danger, the court ruled in his favor...

I learned it in the Academy.
Last edit: 10 years 10 months ago by OleCowboy.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31880 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic The knockout game.
Don't forget the jury will come from the neighborhood the incident happen in. I wish the media would stop giving this issue cult status, maybe it would slow down on its own if there was no recognition. :twocents:
There will always be racial violence, I quit drinking for this reason. I would slam a half bottle of tequila and go hit the first black person I ran across. I don't remember doing it but the evidence showed I did. Knocked out three, two kicked my ass. I've never considered myself racist but there must be something there, possibly the environment provided by the Army had something to do with it, add plenty of booze and out it came. If I ever get clocked by someone playing the game I'll just chalk it up to karma, what goes around comes around.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31882 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The knockout game.
Ohhh as for the 'gang' saying they were just picking daisies when you walked by and shot one of them...I hope you were only kidding, any good interrogator can break them down in a few min, that does not hold water, dog does not hunt, only on TV...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31883 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic The knockout game.

OleCowboy wrote: You are confusing Assault, Aggravated Assault with Battery, Aggravated Battery. When they commit Battery your have the right to defend yourself, at that point in time they have had physical contact with you and a fist to the face is your shot to call on how you chose to defend yourself. When struck they have committed aggravated battery with intent to do serious harm or murder.

Assault does mean you were physically contacted, that is battery. This can be as simple as knocking your hat off (battery) or throwing a pillow at you (battery), a fist to the face is aggravated battery, different intent.

You may want to look at the Trayvon Martin case. Martin comitted Aggravated Battery, thus Zim felt his life was in danger, the court ruled in his favor...

I learned it in the Academy.


OK. Battery.

I was trying to keep it simple but let's go with this, you said "after you have been hit, that is attempted murder". Can you explain your legal precedence behind this one?

Let's also say that one of the kids playing the game kills someone and actually confesses. Since all of his friends have also come clean and confessed to playing "the knock-out game" in which the intent is to "knock someone out", what would he be charged with? Are you saying it would be murder 1?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 years 10 months ago #31884 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The knockout game.
One thing that is evident, is your response will be influenced by the state you live in and where it happens. Probably also by the attitudes of your county or city prosecutor. So in a way it becomes dependent on an elected official, at least where I live the County Attorney is elected. If you acted in self defence would he come after you? I don't know, but if I felt it was self defence, the tried by twelve instead of buried by six, comes to mind as wise advice.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.