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What is forgotten in the hysteria

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11 years 7 months ago #23211 by Charlie
Replied by Charlie on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

jtallen83 wrote: I would like to believe that we are better than just watching people struggle to be "fit".
The problem as I see it is who is giving the help. As someone who ended up on the public dole through no effort of my own I understand how important some sort of safety net is. They could go a long way in stopping all the fraud by making things more locale. The waste I've seen in these federal mandated programs is shameful. Even the people running the system complain. Charity should all be locale, not gone. As someone who is no longer as "fit" as most I'd like to see a safety net rather than the present safety trap. The idea that you can focus on changing one slice of society that doesn't comply with the rest could go real wrong with the out of control government we have now. using a study to promote societal change reminds me of eugenics. Think hard before you put everyone in a class.


It is a complicated situation, and nobody wants to throw out the baby with the bath water. But there are things that can be done to make it more sane and less damaging to the people it purports to help. Supporting a caste of professional deadbeats damages middle class working folks (increased taxes and reduced rewards), the country (lost productivity, increased crime), and the members of the cast itself (low self esteem, high crime neighborhoods). This is a lose-lose situation for everyone!

Good parenting is a major predictor of social integration and a successful outcome, and one of the biggest factors in successful parenting is the two-parent household. And yet welfare discourages this. Very few people will turn down a handout, and the thing never mentioned is that the welfare class (and black people in particular) are the ones who suffer most.

One of my hobbies is playing country music (6-string, pedal steel, vocal harmony), and from 2006 to 2008 I was the token white guy in a black country band. I didn't know there were two dozen black rednecks in the world, but many a night we'd play to a packed house of hundreds. They came from small towns and rural areas all over three counties, and any one of those guys could seriously out-redneck Toby Keith! The city blacks didn't know what to make of them, maybe they thought they'd wandered onto a movie set. That was some of the most fun I've had in my life!

It doesn't have anything to do with your skin, it's what's in your head.

Charlie

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11 years 7 months ago #23212 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
Jt and Charlie, I was gonna quote both your last comments, but it would have been an awful long message! You both make excellent points. As far as parenting, I think it puts the odds in a persons favor to have two strong parents, but hats off to those exceptional individuals from single parent homes that there are many of. It is a predictor of behavior, but not an absolute rule. There are a lot of single mothers( and fathers) who bust their tails to make up for no partners. And on Mothers Day, hats off to them.
I believe in a safety net, but we need to curtail the frequent abuses of it. Part of the problem, is the fiefdom building that goes on inside federal and state bureaucracy's. The administration in a welfare net sees their power and prestige expand the larger the program is. So they lobby for more funds and more services to give out, hence guidelines become more liberal, and abuses occur. I have especially seen this in the State of Wisconsin assistance programs. My wife was a manager for a medical transport company, and the amount of free transport that was given to relatively healthy people who had cars of their own was ridiculous. It will be a difficult fix, but we need to start working to get a program that helps the few who need it, and gives a kick in the butt to those who don't.
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11 years 7 months ago - 11 years 7 months ago #23213 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
Another case in point: The state of Wisconsin decided to institute a group to "cost manage" state medical assistance programs in northern Wisconsin to save money. So they hired 50 case administrators and case manager specialists at an average of $55,000 a year to do so. These case managers save a nickel here or a nickel there, but meanwhile their $4 million in salaries and benefits are added to the cost of the program, as well as the cost of the beautiful offices they are lodged in throughout an economically depressed area. They have become just one more unnecessary layer of administration taking money away from really helping those who need it, while abuses to the system continue to occur. Criteria needs to become tougher, along with a substantial reduction in the number of unnecessary jobs that become their own reason for existence, and not much else. I am off my :soapbox: now.
Last edit: 11 years 7 months ago by Siscowet.

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11 years 7 months ago #23214 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
The KEY JT is create a safety net, NOT a hammock.

When I did a research paper on welfare in the late 60's I interviewed a family that had been on welfare for 2 generations, today we are finding 3rd and 4th generation on welfare.

A single mother, 4 kids in Ca draws about $100,000 in cash and benefits: Food stamps, cell fone, bicycles, welfare, free medical, free housing, free utilities...when does it end?

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11 years 7 months ago #23216 by 10-76
Replied by 10-76 on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
Stats are deceiving, with many ways to interpret and read them to the sheeples.

Homicide rates are down, as less people are actually dying of GSWs, as result of improved comms and EMS training/systems.

The data reported to look at are assaults/aggravated assaults/attempted homicides: since the 1960s their metrics have increased 5-10 fold on every continent. The factor that it is on every continent is the more important aspect to study here, as the libs want to compare the U.S. to the UK/Australia/Canada, and say we in the U.S. are the most [gun]violent country on the planet.

Inter-personal violence is the same and on the increase in every country whether it is with machetes, aluminum bats, or guns, or IEDs. It is a difficult field to study as all too many people "reporting" have motives other than an honest look.
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11 years 7 months ago #23217 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

10-76 wrote: Stats are deceiving, with many ways to interpret and read them to the sheeples.

Homicide rates are down, as less people are actually dying of GSWs, as result of improved comms and EMS training/systems.

The data reported to look at are assaults/aggravated assaults/attempted homicides: since the 1960s their metrics have increased 5-10 fold on every continent. The factor that it is on every continent is the more important aspect to study here, as the libs want to compare the U.S. to the UK/Australia/Canada, and say we in the U.S. are the most [gun]violent country on the planet.

Inter-personal violence is the same and on the increase in every country whether it is with machetes, aluminum bats, or guns, or IEDs. It is a difficult field to study as all too many people "reporting" have motives other than an honest look.

that is interesting, would you have a source for that? I would like to learn more. I almost think that overcrowding and overpopulation might play into that. But during the 60's seems there was a " war of liberation" every time you turned around.

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11 years 7 months ago - 11 years 7 months ago #23225 by 10-76
Replied by 10-76 on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

Siscowet wrote:

10-76 wrote: Stats are deceiving, with many ways to interpret and read them to the sheeples.

Homicide rates are down, as less people are actually dying of GSWs, as result of improved comms and EMS training/systems.

The data reported to look at are assaults/aggravated assaults/attempted homicides: since the 1960s their metrics have increased 5-10 fold on every continent. The factor that it is on every continent is the more important aspect to study here, as the libs want to compare the U.S. to the UK/Australia/Canada, and say we in the U.S. are the most [gun]violent country on the planet.

Inter-personal violence is the same and on the increase in every country whether it is with machetes, aluminum bats, or guns, or IEDs. It is a difficult field to study as all too many people "reporting" have motives other than an honest look.

that is interesting, would you have a source for that? I would like to learn more. I almost think that overcrowding and overpopulation might play into that. But during the 60's seems there was a " war of liberation" every time you turned around.


War and combat EMS is actually the key therein: the life saving efforts learned on the battlefield have been transferred to the streets.

Lt Col Dave Grossman, at about the 3:00 mark he starts to discuss the changes in metrics over the last 40-50 years, on different continents.

Last edit: 11 years 7 months ago by 10-76.
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11 years 7 months ago #23228 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

OleCowboy wrote: The KEY JT is create a safety net, NOT a hammock.

When I did a research paper on welfare in the late 60's I interviewed a family that had been on welfare for 2 generations, today we are finding 3rd and 4th generation on welfare.

A single mother, 4 kids in Ca draws about $100,000 in cash and benefits: Food stamps, cell fone, bicycles, welfare, free medical, free housing, free utilities...when does it end?



If you mean a hammock like I stretched between two trees out in the swamp then I can see the similarity, if your referring to the hammock you take a peaceful spring nap in then I missed that one! I assure I am far from getting rich or even living comfortable on what safety net the government provides. If I hadn't made my own "off grid" investments I would have lost my house well before one dime of help was available. Where I see all the money being spent is on the system minders that create paperwork and the infrastructure that supports them.
Maybe Cali gives free stuff out but short of my disability check the only handout I've found that didn't come from family and friends was a payment for 40% of the cost of the credits for 4 semesters of school, maybe $3,000. I've seen no gravy train here in Iowa although I do see the generational thing you refer to.......maybe I just see it different because I have had a good paying job and can see the difference, still seems hard to understand how someone could be satisfied with what welfare offers.......

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11 years 7 months ago - 11 years 7 months ago #23230 by 10-76
Replied by 10-76 on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

OleCowboy wrote: The KEY JT is create a safety net, NOT a hammock.

When I did a research paper on welfare in the late 60's I interviewed a family that had been on welfare for 2 generations, today we are finding 3rd and 4th generation on welfare.

A single mother, 4 kids in Ca draws about $100,000 in cash and benefits: Food stamps, cell fone, bicycles, welfare, free medical, free housing, free utilities...when does it end?


Yup. Somewhere on Youtube there is a Cali mother doing a tutorial on how to manipulate the system for more $$$, while doing nothing more than having more kids, and necessitating NOT being married. Let me see if I can dig it up....

Here it is: free daycare, groceries, etc, at $400 a month per kid, while getting free daycare, rent, and utilities? Yup.

Last edit: 11 years 7 months ago by 10-76.

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11 years 7 months ago #23235 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
She is a comedic rapper that specializes in satire! Odds are like most she has no clue what the system is really like. Lets go after the bureaucrats that push people to cheat on welfare and leave the kids and the needy out of it. Again, I don't know about California but I'm very skeptical about that $100,000 figure, they must be figuring in what is spent on bureaucratic time.

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