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What is forgotten in the hysteria

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11 years 7 months ago #23084 by Siscowet
What is forgotten in the hysteria was created by Siscowet
The gun homicide rate has been declining for 20 years.
www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-h...peak-public-unaware/
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtallen83

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11 years 7 months ago #23090 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
Maybe more guns = less gun deaths

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11 years 7 months ago #23104 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

OleCowboy wrote: Maybe more guns = less gun deaths


Add a little training from the NRA and you have a recipe for a safe society! :twothumbs:
I noticed FOX was the only ones to run the story repeatedly, PBS did briefly give the numbers but quickly turned to a Newtown story.

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11 years 7 months ago #23107 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
The big point is that the homicide rate is caused by something other then the availability of guns. Social or cultural issues are evidently a much bigger driver of the rate of homicides.

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11 years 7 months ago #23119 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
Just heard on the news that in the latest Dpet of Justice study of inmates asking where they got their guns only 4% said they got them at flea markets and gun shows...

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11 years 7 months ago - 11 years 7 months ago #23166 by Charlie
Replied by Charlie on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

Siscowet wrote: The big point is that the homicide rate is caused by something other then the availability of guns. Social or cultural issues are evidently a much bigger driver of the rate of homicides.


This runs parallel to a Micro 251 (med micro) lecture I sat: The incidence of venereal disease is highest by far among the extreme lower class _*AND*_ the extreme upper class. It's easy to see that people who don't have skin (ahem) in the game are less concerned with the consequences of their actions (assuming they are even aware that actions have consequences), but the super-rich seem to think they're immune. So in addition to your ghetto trash you get folks like Michael Jackson (the dancer), Brittany Spears and Phil Spector doing extremely stupid things, while the folks in the middle are too busy worrying about their reputation, their kids, and next payday to wander far off the beaten path.

When concealed carry was first proposed the usual suspects predicted an old west style bloodbath, but since I got my CHP I have found myself being much more careful about getting into non-productive arguments with strangers.

Charlie
Last edit: 11 years 7 months ago by Charlie.

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11 years 7 months ago #23167 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

Charlie wrote:

Siscowet wrote: The big point is that the homicide rate is caused by something other then the availability of guns. Social or cultural issues are evidently a much bigger driver of the rate of homicides.


This runs parallel to a Micro 251 (med micro) lecture I sat: The incidence of venereal disease is highest by far among the extreme lower class _*AND*_ the extreme upper class. It's easy to see that people who don't have skin (ahem) in the game are less concerned with the consequences of their actions (assuming they are even aware that actions have consequences), but the super-rich seem to think they're immune. So in addition to your ghetto trash you get folks like Michael Jackson (the dancer), Brittany Spears and Phil Spector doing extremely stupid things, while the folks in the middle are too busy worrying about their reputation, their kids, and next payday to wander far off the beaten path.

When concealed carry was first proposed the usual suspects predicted an old west style bloodbath, but since I got my CHP I have found myself being much more careful about getting into non-productive arguments with strangers.

Charlie

Exactly!

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11 years 7 months ago #23200 by Charlie
Replied by Charlie on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

Siscowet wrote: Exactly!


Thanks! I was afraid that the connection was less than obvious.

Social pathologies cluster on both ends of the social scale. The extreme upper class is small, and their lunacy is more or less self correcting, so if we want to do something positive about violence we need to take a close look at the other end of the scale, and find out why it produces a disproportionate number of violent people.

Bad parenting is the primary cause of failed social integration, and while bad parents cluster on both ends of the scale, the vast majority of illegitimate and neglected children are found in the extreme lower class. This class exists in large part because our "Great Society" (spit!) created it, and its members are now 4th to 6th generation inhabitants with little or no desire to elevate their status. Their achievements in parenting and social integration are abysmal to say the least, and as I see it the most positive thing to do to reduce violence is to disincentivize illegitimacy.

Charlie

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11 years 7 months ago #23205 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria

Charlie wrote:

Siscowet wrote: Exactly!


Thanks! I was afraid that the connection was less than obvious.

Social pathologies cluster on both ends of the social scale. The extreme upper class is small, and their lunacy is more or less self correcting, so if we want to do something positive about violence we need to take a close look at the other end of the scale, and find out why it produces a disproportionate number of violent people.

Bad parenting is the primary cause of failed social integration, and while bad parents cluster on both ends of the scale, the vast majority of illegitimate and neglected children are found in the extreme lower class. This class exists in large part because our "Great Society" (spit!) created it, and its members are now 4th to 6th generation inhabitants with little or no desire to elevate their status. Their achievements in parenting and social integration are abysmal to say the least, and as I see it the most positive thing to do to reduce violence is to disincentivize illegitimacy.

Charlie

WOW Charlie you have some great insight...to put it in more simple terms, STOP paying people to not work. Let 'survival of the fittiest prevail" The ONLY people to draw welfare and other benefits are the sick and lame, cut out the lazy...

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11 years 7 months ago #23209 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic What is forgotten in the hysteria
I would like to believe that we are better than just watching people struggle to be "fit".
The problem as I see it is who is giving the help. As someone who ended up on the public dole through no effort of my own I understand how important some sort of safety net is. They could go a long way in stopping all the fraud by making things more locale. The waste I've seen in these federal mandated programs is shameful. Even the people running the system complain. Charity should all be locale, not gone. As someone who is no longer as "fit" as most I'd like to see a safety net rather than the present safety trap. The idea that you can focus on changing one slice of society that doesn't comply with the rest could go real wrong with the out of control government we have now. using a study to promote societal change reminds me of eugenics. Think hard before you put everyone in a class.

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