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New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)

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11 years 7 months ago #21307 by LebbenB
Replied by LebbenB on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)

Upon ejection the bolt does not pick up another round, instead it just ejects, goes back, and the resets in the seated position just without another round. Sometimes the gun will not be cocked after this FTF, sometimes it will.

Emphasis added.

I'm guessing you've tried moving the gas regulator to the "Adverse" setting already. Have you checked the ports in the gas plug to ensure they're clear? Also have you checked the operating rod and spring to ensure that it's not binding on anything?

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11 years 7 months ago #21309 by Moreau
Replied by Moreau on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)

LebbenB wrote:

Upon ejection the bolt does not pick up another round, instead it just ejects, goes back, and the resets in the seated position just without another round. Sometimes the gun will not be cocked after this FTF, sometimes it will.

Emphasis added.

I'm guessing you've tried moving the gas regulator to the "Adverse" setting already. Have you checked the ports in the gas plug to ensure they're clear? Also have you checked the operating rod and spring to ensure that it's not binding on anything?


Yes, I've tried all of the gas settings. I checked and cleaned the gas and piston system when I first had the issue. I will check the gas and piston system again to ensure I did not overlook anything. I will also try to pick up some heavier loads tomorrow (if I can find them) and see how they perform. I should be getting 2 new Pmags in on Friday but I'm starting to think the mag is not the issue... :banghead: Hopefully I can find the heavier ammo tomorrow and post some positive results by the end of the day.

Thanks,
Joe

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11 years 7 months ago #21311 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)
It sounds mundane, but I noticed in Sig talk that you have to push the detent in before you change the gas regulator settings, and that that was omitted from the Sig manual. I would assume if you did that without pushing it in, the setting wouldn't change. Are you aware of that? If not check the Sig talk reference higher up in the thread. We are all rooting for you, so let us know how it shakes out.

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11 years 7 months ago #21312 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)
And by the way Moreau - WELCOME to the forum... :welcome:


As you can see, we've got a bunch of great guys on here all happy to do all we can to assist so when you DO get this solved, make sure you give us the details so maybe you or WE, can help someone else that (God forbid) might run into the same issue.

Glad to have you aboard and I sincerely hope we've helped and look forward to you getting squared away with this. :thumbs:

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11 years 7 months ago #21332 by LebbenB
Replied by LebbenB on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)
Take a flashlight and shine it into the chamber. It should be shiny and smooth. If you can see lines or marks in it, then you've probably got a rough or out of spec chamber. That would also cause the issue you're having.

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11 years 7 months ago #21337 by mrraley
Replied by mrraley on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)

Moreau wrote: The FTF only occurs with the CBC and PMC ammo. The FTF is simply that a FTF. Upon ejection the bolt does not pick up another round, instead it just ejects, goes back, and the resets in the seated position just without another round. Sometimes the gun will not be cocked after this FTF, sometimes it will. The ejection pattern is consistent at about 3-4 ft. I've put 42 rounds of the Hornady through it without a single FTF and the bolt always locks back on this ammo after the last round. The PMC and CBC do not cause the bolt to lock back on the final round. The PMC and CBC have caused the rifle to jam, actually picking up a round and then failing to seat it correctly, this FTF is rare.


This right here is exactly what I was getting at. Prime example of underpowered ammunition not generating enough gas pressure to cycle the BCG all the way back to cock the rifle.

In doing so it catches the next cartridge part way and sometimes dents the casing. The other part of this is since the BCG does not go back far enough, the buffer and buffer spring do not create enough force to seat the next round also. This is also known as counter recoil.

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11 years 7 months ago #21348 by Moreau
Replied by Moreau on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)

Siscowet wrote: It sounds mundane, but I noticed in Sig talk that you have to push the detent in before you change the gas regulator settings, and that that was omitted from the Sig manual. I would assume if you did that without pushing it in, the setting wouldn't change. Are you aware of that? If not check the Sig talk reference higher up in the thread. We are all rooting for you, so let us know how it shakes out.


Yes I have depressed the detent before adjusting the pressure setting. From what I understand you are only required to depress it to go to the "Blocked" setting, that completely closes the gas port, and the "Silencer" setting. You cannot shift to those settings without pressing the detent. "Adverse" and "Normal" settings can be switched without pressing down the detent.

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11 years 7 months ago #21350 by Moreau
Replied by Moreau on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)

Sharkey wrote: And by the way Moreau - WELCOME to the forum... :welcome:


As you can see, we've got a bunch of great guys on here all happy to do all we can to assist so when you DO get this solved, make sure you give us the details so maybe you or WE, can help someone else that (God forbid) might run into the same issue.

Glad to have you aboard and I sincerely hope we've helped and look forward to you getting squared away with this. :thumbs:


Thanks you, Thank you. Yeah, everyone has been a great help! I was very surprised with the quantity, quality and speediness of the responses. When I do get it figured out I will be sure to let ya'll know.

Thanks,
Joe

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11 years 7 months ago #21377 by Moreau
Replied by Moreau on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)

LebbenB wrote: Take a flashlight and shine it into the chamber. It should be shiny and smooth. If you can see lines or marks in it, then you've probably got a rough or out of spec chamber. That would also cause the issue you're having.


I cleaned up the chamber, it was a little dirty and the recoil spring in the stock, which was caked with sunscreen lotion type factory lube, it was filthy. I managed to get a few rounds in today before it started raining and here are my results.

I loaded the clip with with 2 PMC and 2 CBC to try first, just to see if anything had changed . I chambered the first CBC, fired it and the round didn't eject. The bolt carrier group did not go back enough, stopping after traveling backward about an inch. I cleared the round and chambered another. Same result.

I then fired the 2 remaining rounds (PMC) the first one fired fine and chambered the subsequent round but the second round (last round in mag) did not lock the bolt back.

I loaded up 4 180grs Remington .308 Express Core-Lokt these did the same thing as the CBC... They fired, but did not eject because the BCG did not cycle all the way back. The first 2 rounds did this and the third ejected but failed to pick up the last round. The final round fired but did not eject (like the first 2). I was really hoping these heavier loads would prove somewhat of a solution, at least until the recoil springs loosened up a bit. :banghead: I have some more 180grs .308 ammo but didn't get a chance to try it because of the rain.

I was thinking maybe it just doesn't like 7.62x51 because I never had an issue with the Hornady .308 but today it wasn't eating the 180 grs .308 either. I didn't get a chance to put any Hornady 150grs .308 today because of the rain.

My Pmags should come in tomorrow, if those do not address the issue then I am pretty much out of ideas. I really don't want to send it in to Sig and be without for a few months... but I guess it's better than owning a $2,000 paper weight. :banghead:

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11 years 7 months ago #21378 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic New Member, New Gun, New Problems... (Sig 716)
Wow. I'm VERY sorry to hear you are still having issues Moreau. I think either Lebben, Colt or MrRaley might be able to come up with the best ideas to help you out at this point though as they are some of our best gurus on this stuff.

I'm hoping one of them has some more ideas.

Did you go over the issues Lebben suggested looking at as well?

I wish I could help my but I'm just not going to try to guess against the knowledge these guys have.

Let's see what they come up with before you go packing it up... :(

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