"7.62 NATO ... turning cover into concealment for decades"
The AR 10 VS the M14 was the initial heading for this thread, but I find it fascinating how it has morphed some how into a very interesting and detailed discussion on CQB.and a comparison of various CQB cartridge and platform choices. From listening to some different perspectives, I am learning some new things ... which is after all the whole point of these type of threads.
I was trained as an infantry officer, and I am not and never have been a professional door kicker ... though some of my friends are or were. My training in "house cleaning" was ancient history, with the FN FAL and the Sterling SMG, and using C4 as the entrance doorway of choice. And yes, while none of these [ by modern standards ] would be considered ideal for the role today, "House Cleaning" CAN and HAS be done successfully with an FN FAL ... but one of the NEW Dyson "turbo" vacuum cleaners would probably be more efficient.
LebbenB took one of my initial statements regarding my desire to optimise my AR10 for "CQB" use and ran with it. His experience and training in this area has apparently led him to question my choice of an AR 10 for the "CQB" role. And he makes some very good, well educated and perceptive arguments. Especially the one about how .308 Ammo costs too much ... even though 6.8 SPC [ at least here in Canada ] costs even more. Like many others, for economic reasons, I practice a LOT with my .22 LR conversion kit on my AR 15.
HOWEVER,
just to clarify ....
I am NOT trying to turn an AR10 into the ULTIMATE CQB solution.
I have an 11.5" AR 15 in .223, with specialised .223 ammunition for this role, and most of us will agree that the AR 15 is smaller, lighter, and more nimble than any AR 10 can ever be, and thus better for CQB. And while I am comfortable trusting 5.56/.223, with the right ammunition, as a viable CQB choice, I personally [ and MANY others ] would be even more comfortable with more power in the AR 15 mag length platform. The 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel, .300 Whisper, .300 Blackout, and the BIG bore "THUMPER" AR 15 cartridges did NOT develop in a vacuum. These cartridges were created because there was a perceived need for more power for the AR 15 in CQB AND in general duty roles.
What I am trying to do is make one of the AR 10 rifles that I have as good as it can be at CQB WITHOUT compromising the versatility and long range performance of the AR 10 platform.
Most of us will agree that an AR 10 in 7.62 NATO IS, and probably always will be, a more versatile all around "Battle Rifle" than any M4rgry in any caliber can be. Like I keep saying, I respect VERSATILITY above all else in my fire arms choices. And a short AR 10 seems to me to be the ideal choice for that elusive "one rifle" that blends the best of the "Assault Rifle" breed with the best of the "Battle Rifles".
My situation is different than your situation.
My choices will therefor be different than your choices.
YPMMV!!
For example, I live on a secluded acreage that is 200 yds from one of the biggest natural forest preserves on Vancouver Island. We have seen Cougar tracks in our yard. Last Summer, we came home to a Black Bear. And when I lived up North, in Northern BC, bumping into a Grizzly at smelling distances was not all that uncommon. So my definition of "CQB" is probably quite different from yours.
My possible scenarios for CQB include "Things that go bump in the night" INSIDE the house. Last time this happened, I was alone in the house, brand new wife 1000 Km up North in Prince Rupert, attending a Wilderness Women's Outdoors training class. With some one UNEXPECTEDLY staggering down my hall way at 0: Dark 30, for my "Tactical Solution" I chose a BIG can of bear spray and a 4D Maglite flashlight instead of the 12 Ga lying next to the bed.
GOOD THING!!
That incident turned out to be my brand new step son, in town for the weekend, who stopped by to do his laundry. If I had pointed a 12 Ga at him, or worse yet shot him, I don't think my marriage would have lasted another week. As it was, wife and I had a serious discussion about "security", and the fact that she had given all her kids keys to our new home without telling me.
These days, where I live now, any "bump in the night inside the house" would have to climb up a steep stair way and OVER the 110 lb German Shepherd Dog who sleeps at the top of stairs ... where my "Guardian Angel" can keep an eye on things. At that point, the Glock in .40 S&W, with the VERY BRIGHT light, would be my first grab. NOT my AR 15, and NOT my AR 10.
Things that go "GROWL" or "MEOW" in the night, just outside the house, or worse yet disputing right of passage to the barbecue that sits on our upper deck with my 110 Lb Guardian Angel .... well that is a different kettle of fish entirely. And that is where the 18.5" AR 10 and the 11.5" AR 15 would come into play.
Like I said,
YPMMV,
but I still prefer the VERSATILITY of the AR 10 in .308 WIN, over any other "ONE GUN" choice for my personal situation.
PS: My Brother in Law lives in Washington, and he has invited me on an ELK hunt next season. The rifle I will be bringing along will be my shorty AR 10 in .308.
C'ant hunt Elk that with an M4rgry.
While I have [ legally ] hunted small deer with a .223, and while those deer were just as instantly dead as any deer ever, I took ONLY head shots at STANDING deer.
For an ALL AROUND, ONE RIFLE solution, for tactical AND Practical, I will always go with an AR 10 in .308. And I will vary the loads to suit the tactical/practical scenarios.
But I will be keeping my shorty AR 15 M4rgry in 5.56 .... for the wife, for practice, for shooting with the .22 LR conversion kit And most likely, when they become viable here on Scenic Fantasy Island, BC, Canuckistan, I will be adding a 16" .300 Blackout upper to it . Because, even though I would like to find that perfect, elusive, most versatile, "One rifle that will do it all", in 50 years of looking, I ain't found it yet.
But a shorty AR 10 in .308 comes closest.
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