Nickel Boron BCG

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10 years 6 months ago #37825 by LebbenB
Replied by LebbenB on topic Nickel Boron BCG
Welcome to the forum.

It's easy to get bamboozled by all the aftermarket bells and whistles available for an AR-style rifle.

A standard AR bolt carrier is made from 8620 steel. Staking refers to the screws that hold the gas key to the bolt carrier. When looking at the torque screws, you should see two indentations per screw. The staking prevents the screws from backing out and loosening. The exterior of the carrier should be phosphated with the interior of the carrier where the bolt rides being chrome lined. The interior of the gas key should be chrome lined as well. A good manufacturer will ensure the carrier has undergone magnetic particle inspection (MPI.)

As others have mentioned NiB is a surface coating that will eventually wear off as the carrier cycles back and forth inside the rifle.

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10 years 6 months ago #37841 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Nickel Boron BCG
We're it me...SS would be my choice for a BCG.

Fact. Metal vs metal = wear! all coating wear.

Ask your wife about that diamond nail file she uses. Even I am amazed hoe fast diamonds wear down against fingernails.

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10 years 6 months ago #37842 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Nickel Boron BCG

OleCowboy wrote: We're it me...SS would be my choice for a BCG.

Fact. Metal vs metal = wear! all coating wear.

Ask your wife about that diamond nail file she uses. Even I am amazed hoe fast diamonds wear down against fingernails.


Like diamond saw blades, it isn't the diamond that wears but the material that is holding the diamond. The material wears away and the diamond falls out leaving fewer and fewer to do the cutting.
I'm not convinced there is a coating that does better than a clean and lube on a regular basis.

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10 years 6 months ago - 10 years 6 months ago #37846 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Nickel Boron BCG

jtallen83 wrote:

OleCowboy wrote: We're it me...SS would be my choice for a BCG.

Fact. Metal vs metal = wear! all coating wear.

Ask your wife about that diamond nail file she uses. Even I am amazed hoe fast diamonds wear down against fingernails.


Like diamond saw blades, it isn't the diamond that wears but the material that is holding the diamond. The material wears away and the diamond falls out leaving fewer and fewer to do the cutting.
I'm not convinced there is a coating that does better than a clean and lube on a regular basis.

LOL OK JT will give you that one. :I-agree:

When I had my Fab shop one of my biggest expense and frustrations was drill bits. Tried them all, NiBor, TitNtride, Carbide, Cobalt, Cryogenic treated, etc. I mostly worked with carbon mild steel up to about 7/16ths. They all wore out, some faster than others. Often it was faster and easier to punch a hole with my super cosmic plasma cutter the, ream it round. Did this on bolt sizes 5/8ths +

Don't get me wrong, there is a time and place for coatings. I especially like the NiBor on exterior surfaces like uppers and lowers or any surface that does not have repeated metal to metal contact.
Last edit: 10 years 6 months ago by OleCowboy.

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10 years 6 months ago #37864 by SOC
Replied by SOC on topic Nickel Boron BCG

JUICE9269 wrote: How is the ion bond process different or better than nickel boron? Any experience with it? How long has this been around? Help me with science of it, the webpage you gave doesn't say much.


Been around about 10 years.

Springer Precision has this to say.

We do the custom coating for IonBond North America and you would not believe some of the things we get calls about rumors that are spread on the internet. Either overly praising or hypercritical.

The DLC (DiamondBLACK) finish is a hard carbon coating that CAN NOT make softer metals super hard and indestructible, most will note that the softer metal parts will wear faster than hard parts. Mix hard parts with soft parts, and one will wear (ie fp stop versus hammer face.) The coating is also oriented a bit. There will be more coating on the outside of a slide than on the inside.

If you gouge steel (ie a magwell) you will remove the steel and the coating with it. The same will happen with hard rocks or sand embedded in a Kydex holster. Some people want to DLC coat aluminum, but it is so soft we suggest using Class III hard anodizing. SS is generally softer also, so mag wells WILL gouge if you miss, spring steel against soft steel or aluminum, spring steel wins.

How many of you have slides that peen over or have small burrs in the area of the slide stop? If you move the base metal the coating will move also.

Hard chrome is super thick it comparison, so though you may still scratch it is is thick so you may not get all the way through it. DLC is about 4-5 microns and so there will be a short time where it is tighter, and if you coat the sear and hammer, you will need to do work to them after coating. You are adding material to a generally mirror type finish if you have a good trigger.

All in all we do a lot of coating and if you understand how the coating works your expectations will most likely be met or exceeded. If you think it is "magic" you will not have your expectations met. Coatings are not magic, they are subject to the laws of physics. The machines at IonBond are very busy and most of the time is spent coating for major manufacturers and under many trade names and in many formulations.

I have several demo slide that have been through Shot and have been severely abused by anyone who wanted to, I can post if you wish. I also have a slide that we let customers sand with 600 grit sand paper. Can aluminum oxide scratch though thte caoting? Yes, if you have a big enough sharp piece. There is NO WAY CeraKote comes close to out performing DiamondBLACK, or the other PVD coatings with lesser hardness, and we do a fair amount of CeraKote finishing. I'm not knocking the product, but it does not even come close to the durability of the PVD for wear, but I do know the limitations of it's performance and use it when it meet the performance and price requirement of a customer.

Knowing proper application and limitations are very important if you want to meet your expectations. 541-480-5546 we can help you understand the applications as we daily get people who want to coat things in a way that is not appropriate to their expectations and we'll do the best to we to give you straight dope. We'll do what you request, but if you want to do something that doesn't make sense to us we will let you know what we think.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtallen83, JUICE9269

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10 years 6 months ago #37877 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Nickel Boron BCG

SOC wrote:

JUICE9269 wrote: How is the ion bond process different or better than nickel boron? Any experience with it? How long has this been around? Help me with science of it, the webpage you gave doesn't say much.


Been around about 10 years.

Springer Precision has this to say.

We do the custom coating for IonBond North America and you would not believe some of the things we get calls about rumors that are spread on the internet. Either overly praising or hypercritical.

The DLC (DiamondBLACK) finish is a hard carbon coating that CAN NOT make softer metals super hard and indestructible, most will note that the softer metal parts will wear faster than hard parts. Mix hard parts with soft parts, and one will wear (ie fp stop versus hammer face.) The coating is also oriented a bit. There will be more coating on the outside of a slide than on the inside.

If you gouge steel (ie a magwell) you will remove the steel and the coating with it. The same will happen with hard rocks or sand embedded in a Kydex holster. Some people want to DLC coat aluminum, but it is so soft we suggest using Class III hard anodizing. SS is generally softer also, so mag wells WILL gouge if you miss, spring steel against soft steel or aluminum, spring steel wins.

How many of you have slides that peen over or have small burrs in the area of the slide stop? If you move the base metal the coating will move also.

Hard chrome is super thick it comparison, so though you may still scratch it is is thick so you may not get all the way through it. DLC is about 4-5 microns and so there will be a short time where it is tighter, and if you coat the sear and hammer, you will need to do work to them after coating. You are adding material to a generally mirror type finish if you have a good trigger.

All in all we do a lot of coating and if you understand how the coating works your expectations will most likely be met or exceeded. If you think it is "magic" you will not have your expectations met. Coatings are not magic, they are subject to the laws of physics. The machines at IonBond are very busy and most of the time is spent coating for major manufacturers and under many trade names and in many formulations.

I have several demo slide that have been through Shot and have been severely abused by anyone who wanted to, I can post if you wish. I also have a slide that we let customers sand with 600 grit sand paper. Can aluminum oxide scratch though thte caoting? Yes, if you have a big enough sharp piece. There is NO WAY CeraKote comes close to out performing DiamondBLACK, or the other PVD coatings with lesser hardness, and we do a fair amount of CeraKote finishing. I'm not knocking the product, but it does not even come close to the durability of the PVD for wear, but I do know the limitations of it's performance and use it when it meet the performance and price requirement of a customer.

Knowing proper application and limitations are very important if you want to meet your expectations. 541-480-5546 we can help you understand the applications as we daily get people who want to coat things in a way that is not appropriate to their expectations and we'll do the best to we to give you straight dope. We'll do what you request, but if you want to do something that doesn't make sense to us we will let you know what we think.

Just as stated...there is no magic!

There are/were several watches on the market that used PVD. Problem was that under daily use even on a watch wearing coat and tie it soon scratched and wore on the edges.

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10 years 6 months ago #37883 by Akai
Replied by Akai on topic Nickel Boron BCG
:hijacked:

Forget all the :dual:

www.failzero.com/

As requested, this would be a good start to a company with a proven track record as to what your looking for. :wave: :usa:
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtallen83, JUICE9269

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10 years 6 months ago #37898 by JUICE9269
Replied by JUICE9269 on topic Nickel Boron BCG
froglube is no good then compared to these?

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10 years 6 months ago #37910 by faawrenchbndr
Replied by faawrenchbndr on topic Nickel Boron BCG
FrogLube is crap.......

It attracts ants
It separates
It turns sticky
It turns rancid

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10 years 6 months ago #37917 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Nickel Boron BCG
For the intended use and application (as stated by the OP) you have nothing to lose. He will most likely never exceed the useful life of the weapon and it does aid in cleaning.

I have. Used the UTC/Failzero coatings on saw blades and they do have a superior performance over others. The coatings did wear but after much hard use, in fact it lasted almost as long as the blade teeth.

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