Disregard...

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10 years 10 months ago #34138 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic WOW....
The deal with FOX airing these things is simple, they are pure big government capitalist. They could care less about you or your family past how to make money. FOX news is not there as a public service or an ideological stand, it is there because Rupert saw a market that was under-served and jumped on the opportunity to make money. :twocents:
During my recent foray into the liberal arts I noticed a trend towards avoiding Marx and Socialism but instead making references to the Hegelian dialectic in order to push the same basic agenda. Although not considered a socialist, Marx drew heavily on Hegel's dialectic to support his theory of social evolution. They claimed socialism is inevitable so just sit back, relax, and let it come.

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10 years 10 months ago #34160 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic WOW....
Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 - June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing. He is often noted for his book Rules for Radicals which it appears our President is following closely:

There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a socialist/communist state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare. Control healthcare and you control the people

2) Poverty “Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt “Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control “Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state - total local control.

5) Welfare “Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Livestock, Housing, and Income

)6) Education “Take control of what people read and listen to “take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion “Remove faith in God from the Government and schools

8) Class Warfare “Divide the people into the wealthy against the poor. Racially divide. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to Tax the wealthy with full support of the voting poor.

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10 years 10 months ago #34163 by 10-76
Replied by 10-76 on topic WOW....
You can try to be as dismissive as you like, there are others here have been around a while, done some travelling, reading and researching: where and how you have tried to put Adolf Hitler, as a leftist aligned with the same politics of Obama, but you get the definitions and political alignment of Fascism and National Socialist incorrect?

I'm not looking at Germany's political stance during any war, as a country: somehow you aligned a graphic TV show with Obamacare, and then it went to all mass murderers being left of center or Islamist.

Hitler was not a Socialist, and the Fascism which he was a part of is still far on the right side of politics today. Read through the tenets of fascism-it's clearly there, along with the who/what the fascists of Hitler's time liked and did not like. There is a large distinction between socialism and the National Socialists movement that Hitler tried to advance, pertaining to Germans and the German heritage he thought he was preserving. Part of what he thought was a cultural preservation of his Nationalistic views, was in killing those who did not belong.(Totalitarianism.)

I can research, study, and write all day long, but trying to extend my incorrect perceptions is not going to change History or definitions of the Political Science field. Yes, some political affiliations and aligning belief systems have been cyclical, per Dem. vs. Rep. in the last 80 years of U.S.A., but that has nothing to do with a change in the National Socialist Party or Fascism.

Trying to push an agenda or make a statement about what? I don't care what label they have on them either- a monster is a monster, but trying to re-write History for one's own comfort?


I'd really like to see citations from a credible source which says Hitler was a large part of the Socialism movement, and that Fascism is far left of center. The Wikipedia link I provided states what I remembered: Hitler was a National Socialist (far from Socialism) and Fascism is far to the right of center. It was basic Poli Sci 101 when I took it 25 years ago, and it appears the definitions have not changed. Show my education to be wrong please.






OleCowboy wrote: 10-76, sorry but not even close, near comical in fact.

Sisco, I remember that from college and have always somewhat agreed with it.

Here is the issue folks. You have to look at practice vs theory vs definition. Definition changes and often its flavored by someone trying to make a statement or push and agenda.

The best look at Hitler is the 10 years leading up to WWII, there you will see his thinking. You cannot judge a country's political stance based upon how they operate during war.

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10 years 10 months ago #34164 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic WOW....

OleCowboy wrote: Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 - June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing. He is often noted for his book Rules for Radicals which it appears our President is following closely:

There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a socialist/communist state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare. Control healthcare and you control the people

2) Poverty “Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt “Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control “Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state - total local control.

5) Welfare “Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Livestock, Housing, and Income

)6) Education “Take control of what people read and listen to “take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion “Remove faith in God from the Government and schools

8) Class Warfare “Divide the people into the wealthy against the poor. Racially divide. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to Tax the wealthy with full support of the voting poor.


So now that we know how they DID it, what do we do about it? :huh:

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10 years 10 months ago #34165 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic WOW....
Again nice try but no cigar.

While I project that Hitler would BE a socialist, its not based upon his performance.

Hitler had less than 10 years to establish and implement his agenda...he went being a paperhanger to a dictator then a CiC.

I will agree I cannot say for positive because he never got that far instead he failed at war and committed suicide. But all indications based upon what he did do and what he projected would have made him just another tin-horn dictator on the far left and he certainly was that.

Be cautious about trying to apply book definitions to him and others. Every wannabe dictator thinks it will work if he does it...aka Obama. Marx, Lenin, Obama and a host of wannabes across the world for put their mark on Marxism-socialism-communism, Chinese have a flavor, Vietnam has a flavor and while all vary the bottom line is a dictatorship, central planning, and you can read my above post the see what is needed to implement the strategy and the results are always the same...we have no shortage of history to show for it. You can spin your definitions all you want but a page in Wiki does not make it yay or nay...

When you got to make a loaf of bread do you put the flour in the bowl first or the eggs and in this case Hillary was right: "what difference does it make"

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10 years 10 months ago #34166 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic WOW....

jtallen83 wrote:

OleCowboy wrote: Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 - June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing. He is often noted for his book Rules for Radicals which it appears our President is following closely:

There are 8 levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a socialist/communist state. The first is the most important.

1) Healthcare. Control healthcare and you control the people

2) Poverty “Increase the Poverty level as high as possible, poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live.

3) Debt “Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty.

4) Gun Control “Remove the ability to defend themselves from the Government. That way you are able to create a police state - total local control.

5) Welfare “Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Livestock, Housing, and Income

)6) Education “Take control of what people read and listen to “take control of what children learn in school.

7) Religion “Remove faith in God from the Government and schools

8) Class Warfare “Divide the people into the wealthy against the poor. Racially divide. This will cause more discontent and it will be easier to Tax the wealthy with full support of the voting poor.


So now that we know how they DID it, what do we do about it? :huh:


I get asked this question a lot, in fact almost every time I talk on the subject which is often. In our case, now is the time to just say NO!

Lets just look at Obamacare. Don't like it, fine just say NO and hell no, we will not do it. Get about a million folks to tell the admin and the SCOTUS to go to hell and they will fold up like a taco. Till the American people have had a gullet full then nothing will happen. The govt will continue to jam stuff down our throat.

Just because John Roberts said Obamacare is a tax does not make it so if WE say otherwise. This was a gamble and they won or have so far. What is our comeback. This so called Tax affects every living person in the US. Then how come we and Congress did NOT vote on it. Taxation without representation. Obamacare by any reasonable man's view is NOT Constitutional!

See my other thread today on firing pin stamping, S&W, Ruger has told Ca they will not sell guns there and will not comply!

My guess is most folks will wait till the federalies show up at the front door and take their kids, their home, their car and their bank account...then it will be too late.

EPA: EPA has ruled that CO2 is to be regulated. Do you BREATHE next time you exhale then its CO2 and the EPA can regulate YOU, got a BBQ in the backyard, sorry Charlie, EPA now regulates that, fireplace , yep, they regulate that too. AND what is next...try WATER, yes water, EPA is currently working on regulating this and taking CONTROL of every and ALL water in the US. YES the water UNDER you property. Got a well that provides you water, sorry the EPA will take it over and make you comply with THEIR RULES and REGS, WHATEVER they may be.

I will just say NO. When they hit my barbed wire fence around my ranch they will come on this property over my dead body and my AR 10T speaks just like AT&T...long distance :twothumbs:

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10 years 10 months ago #34168 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic WOW....
I've experienced having a child removed from my home. After more than a year of fighting with them a judge finally saw the light and returned her, if I would have just went along it may have all been over in a couple months but I said no to them :naughty:
My political representatives were helpless in the matter, they couldn't even read the file due to all the privacy rules. I was threatened with charges of terrorist threats but no matter how hard I pleaded they would not file charges and let a jury of my peers decide if I was "abusive". Government has been out of control for decades already.
I may work for them but I'm no friend! :mad:
From that point on guns and ammo became my retirement plan........LIBERTY FIRST!

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10 years 10 months ago #34169 by 10-76
Replied by 10-76 on topic WOW....
Rather than your personal opinion, or discussing another red-herring like Communism/Pragmatists/Obama/Billary etc., just link to a scholastic base per your stance on Hitler's politics.



OleCowboy wrote: Again nice try but no cigar.

While I project that Hitler would BE a socialist, its not based upon his performance.

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10 years 10 months ago - 10 years 10 months ago #34170 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic WOW....
I've read Mein Kampf, my impression was the man had definite socialist tendencies. Right, left, or middle of the road did not seem to be a factor, just the advancement of the German peoples.

I don't see this as relating to our medias sorry state, that is simply the decay of a selfish society. If we are not careful we will end up inviting a new Hitler to "fix it" for us.
Last edit: 10 years 10 months ago by jtallen83.

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10 years 10 months ago #34176 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic WOW....
The one thing no one has pointed out, is that under Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Kublai Khan, and just about any other Despot, these violent tendencies of individuals were tolerated and encouraged and put to use in suppression of the populace at large. Whether the SS, the Stasi, or Peoples Committees, the fact that wholesale murder and slaughter of a country's own people was an instrument of policy. While there might be isolated instances of that in the US. It is nowhere near what was the order of the day in China, the USSR, or WWII Europe, where millions were murdered by their own governments. We are talking tens of millions in the twentieth century alone.
Also, keep in mind that violence in the US is half of what it was in the 1990's and a third of what it was in the 1970's, according to FBI statistics.

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