Do you sort for reloading?

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14 years 2 days ago #5993 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Not tonight. Just came on line to let you know I won't be online. Temps dropping and will be near WCF -20 by midnight here. Power going in and out, generator kicking on and off so I'm shutting down.
Later

Latigo

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14 years 1 day ago #5998 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
This is our process. Your's will vary, but this has proven itself for us.

Projectile prep:

We only use 175gr SMKs, but Berger VLDs work really great too if you can afford them. Whatever you use, make sure they're hollow points. Our method is to begin with meplat trimming. We use the Wilson. Buy the sort that indexes on the ogive, not the base of the bullet. That's going to be very important when you cross reference/compare actual seat depth from the ogive to COAL, cartridge to cartridge later. We then use a Wilson Pointer to reshape and center the hollow point and we taper it down to an opening that's approximately twice the thickness of the jacket wall. Now they're ready for the whole impact coating process.

Your bore condition is going to make a difference right out of the gate. Both Moly and hBN have specific applications. Lab Grade Moly is typically 99.8%+ pure with a 1 to 3 micron size.

The process is simple. If you've ever fired a copper jacketed projectile in your rifle, use a water based copper/carbon removal specific such as KG-12 or it's sub-product, Wipe Out. I use Wipe Out Foam and its 100% foolproof. It removes everything every time. Whatever you use, make sure its water based and ammonia free. I use a Hawkeye Borescope to prove the finished product. The bore shold be bright and with no trace of any color whatsoever.

Moly Impact Coating:

Moly is something we're using in a projectile dedicated AR10 Custom Build rifle with a Walther 17-4 S/S, Electro Polished barrel. If you're going to use Moly you absolutely must remove any and all traces of copper from your bore. Degreasing the projectiles is critical. Dawn or a like soap,100 projectiles or more in a plastic collander. Place the collander in a bowl large enough to contain it and add Dawn soap and very hot water. Use your hands if you can stand it, or use a plastic bristled dish scrubber and run it back and forth through the projectiles with a swirling scrubbing action.

Remove the collander from the bowl and rinse well with very hot water. Place a large, clean thick Terry towel on the counter and gently dump the projectiles onto the first 1/3rd of the towel. Do not touch the projectiles from this point on other than with latex or like gloves. Human body oil is as bad as motor oil. I use the disposable hospital latex gloves. They come in a box of 100 and they're thin and super cheap. Using your gloved hands, spread the projectiles out flat in a close group and let them sit for 15 minutes. Lift up the towel by the edges and roll them into the next 1/3rd area. Repeat

Everyone and his brother has a methodology and most involve small pill bottles in the tumbler suspended with corncob media or the far less desireable Thumbler's Tumbler. I don't. I use large 16oz plastic straightwalled jars with a slight taper toward the bottom with screw on lids, and not inside the tumbler in in the media. I made a secondary lid for the tumbler/vibrator on a CNC. Its 1/2" thick Sintra with a 1/4" deep channel cut into the bottom to fit over the inside and outside edge of the tumbler. A 5/16" hole is drilled in the dead center to acommodate the shaft and wing-nut. All four jars are spaced evenly around the shaft on top of the lid in the form-fit holes cut to accept the jars. The holes are made to allow the jars to go down 2/3 of their own length. The tumbler/vibrator is otherwise empty.

Place .177 Dawn washed steel BBs in the bottom 1/4 of each jar. Add two heaping teaspoons of Lab Grade Moly in each and seal the jars. Vibrate for three full hours pausing at the 1 1/2 hour mark to remove them from the vibrator top and shake up and down vigorously a few times. Replace them snugly and continue vibrating to 3 hours.
Place 50 to 75 .30 caliber (or whatever, untouched by human hands) clean projectiles in each of the four jars, add a very liberal 2 to 3 Tsp. of Moly and vibrate for three hours. Within reason, you cannot use too much Moly. The unused Moly simply stasy in the jar and keeps working on the next batch. Moly does not penetrate the copper jacket like hBN, so unused Moly simply sloughs off the projectile when its sufficiently coarted. The jars contained in the top holes of teh Dillon impact coat the projectiles easily 4 times harder and faster than in a pill bottle suspended inside the tumbler in media.

We bought the Sierra Moly coated SMKs to compare to our process. Sierra's and Tubb's are identical in coating. It took almost half again as much effort to scratch ours as it did the Sierras. Our process was given to us by our AR10s builder. He impact coats some 2,000 projectiles a week for his Security Contract buyers of his rifles and for EDM. He uses 4 of the Commercial Dillon Tumbler/Vibrators. He had been using two large plastic mayonnaise jars taped to the tops of his Dillons until we got involved. We supplied him with our custom Sintra made tops and that's all he uses now.

The final super important factor in finishing our bullets came from our AR10 builder. Heat. So much heat that you can barely touch the bullets when the process it done. Our vibrator tops are 1/2" thick flat black Sintra (Expanded PVC), and black absorbs heat like crazy. Our heat sources are large Halogen Body Shop lamps. You have to experiment with distance above the jars to get it right. Too close and you'll soften or melt the jars. Too far and you don't get enough heat. We place them at 45 degrees to the top on either side. If you can find a better or different heat source that works, go for it. Whatever works for you.

Use a large slotted spoon to remove the impact coated projectiles from the jars and transfer them immediately to a dry, thick Terry-Cloth towel.. Grip the towel by both ends, fold them closed and roll the projectiles back and forth in the towel about 8 to 12 times. They're going to come out a bright, rich silver/pewter color and the Moly coat will be very difficult to scratch other than with a steel implement like a screwdriver. You shouldn't be able to remove any at all with your fingernail. They're going to be dead smooth looking with no blotchiness at all.

Case Prep:

The case you use will vary widely. We only use Lake City, headstamped " LR", once fired cases collected from military sniper training ranges. Our source supplys us with 2004 headstamped cases only. We've also tested with Lapua Match. I'll cover the difference ours showed later. They come to us bright to begin with. We use Castor Oil as a case lube. Why? Its slicker than any commercial lube, is cheap and spreads on the case smoothly, quickly and requires an incredibly small amount for 100 cases.

You don't need a lesson in case sizing as you're all reloaders, but we use nothing but Redding Competition FLS dies with bushings and the Redding Competiton Bullet Seater. Our trimmer is the Wilson trimmer. We've found it faster than any collet type trimmer and the results never vary one iota from the first to the last case.

I'll give your our load data and more info when I get a bit more time. Temps are dropping again and the generator has kicked in once already. I've been saving this missive every two minutes of typing and its a darned good thing I did.
Logging off till things change here in Lost Prairie.

Latigo
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtallen83

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14 years 1 day ago #6001 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
BUILDING MY SASS wrote:
[
Oh and JUST ME.>>>>>. I never said I don't want to reload...I am still in reloading Pre School...so I still have alot to learn...
BMS[/quote]

BMS, Sorry, you miss-interpreted what I said. I should have worded it better. I should have said: "If you decide not to reload, here are some other options to tune your rifle to a particular round without having to reload to increase accuracy."

I did not intend to imply you "don't want to reload", obviously you are interested in reloading or you would not be participating in this discussion and asking questions. Jeeze, so sensitive.

Jer

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14 years 1 day ago #6002 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
JustMe wrote:

BUILDING MY SASS wrote:
[
Oh and JUST ME.>>>>>. I never said I don't want to reload...I am still in reloading Pre School...so I still have alot to learn...
BMS


BMS, Sorry, you miss-interpreted what I said. I should have worded it better. I should have said: "If you decide not to reload, here are some other options to tune your rifle to a particular round without having to reload to increase accuracy."

I did not intend to imply you "don't want to reload", obviously you are interested in reloading or you would not be participating in this discussion and asking questions. Jeeze, so sensitive.

Jer[/quote]

Dude....I was just flipping you some Sh@t. :P ..no offense taken....
Sorry if I came of as "sensitive"/////// ;)
BMS

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14 years 23 hours ago #6005 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Then............... that means you don't watch the Lifetime channel? :P

Latigo

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14 years 12 hours ago #6010 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Glad you guys "sorted" it all out! :laugh:

So all I can give you are the components. 175gr SMK,meplat trimmed and pointed, Moly coated, RE15 powder and the magic MV for this rifle and this projectile in this proflie is 2,610 FPS.
The SD for us with this setup is +-5

Good shooting!

Latigo

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13 years 11 months ago #6017 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
zfk55 wrote:

Glad you guys "sorted" it all out! :laugh:

Latigo


Latigo, Yes, we are back to being kissing cousins again. :woohoo: And what's wrong with watching the Lifetime Channel. :laugh: Just joking of course.

Latigo, Are you using a 1:10 twist barrel to be able to stabilize those heavy 175gr SMKs?

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13 years 11 months ago #6018 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
My real problem with the Lifetime cahnnel is that it interferes with Days of Our Lives. Are Bo and Hope ever going to get back together??... and when is Sammy going to quit sleeping around?? Huh? When?

Yep 1:10 and start with 42.5gr of RE15 and work up just a bit. (Dad really doesn't like me posting powder specifics. If a novice misunderstood, well.......) The only ka-BBOOMing I like hearing is from a battle ship on the military channel. :ohmy: :lol:

Latigo

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13 years 11 months ago #6026 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Days of our lives....OMG... :ohmy: NO NO NO....Young and the Restless. :P ....they got the hot babes.... :woohoo:

Z...you said..also once before...42.5 gr of RE15 for the .308...will that also work for the 168 A-Max...Hornady of course...as well as the BTHP Match....
I am using that amount on my next two batches with IMR...4895 and 4064....but I will be using the RE 15 as soon as I get the A max bullets...
BMS

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13 years 11 months ago #6027 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Was that me or Dad that said that? Anyway, my real experience is with the 175s, Bergers, Sierras, Military FMJ Match and like that. We have several thousand 168 Sierras, but I havent reloaded any of them. I think Dad bought them quite a while ago for experimenting with the Swiss rifles.
Anyway, RE15 is a staple for the .308. RE17 is for the 7.5x55 Swiss and similar.

Latigo

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