Do you sort for reloading?

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14 years 1 month ago #5649 by zfk55
Do you sort for reloading? was created by zfk55
We only have one projectile for the AR 10s. The Sierra Matchking 175s.
We trim meplats, point and sort. Typically I seem to find only three weights with a semi-rare odd one. 174.9, 175 and 175.1. The odd one always seems to be 175.2. Spread allowance is 2/10ths. Meplat trimming comes close to equalizing projectile weights, and pointing makes a real difference at 400 yards and out to 1,000.

The trimmer indexes on the projectile's ogive, not the base. Once the brass is sized and trimmed we sort it by weight as well allowing no more that a two tenths spread. Out of 100 we'll typically have 6 different weight categories. Surprisingly, both Lapua and LR are neck and neck for consistency for us.

After reloading we also sort loaded cartridges by overall weight allowing no more than a three tenths spread. All sorts of sorts, but results are consistent and I make the time to do it.
Our private range is a 500 yard maximum.


Latigo
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14 years 1 month ago - 14 years 1 month ago #5656 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Wow...You do take after your father.....never even thought about sorting bullets....I use mainly Hornady...so but, WOW...you really do take it seriously...will have to keep an eye on this thread...see who else does this....this is the first I have ever heard of the bullets weighing different...OK...one more time...WOW.. ;)
I'll shut up now... :lol:
BMS
Last edit: 14 years 1 month ago by BUILDING MY SASS.

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14 years 1 month ago #5659 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
All the hours in the armoury learning about precision reloading left me in this condition. :lol: My objective for the past year has been to prove to myself that an autoloader can reasonably approach, and sometimes match the repeatable accuracy of a good sub-moa military bolt rifle.

Its been a sometimes frustrating road, but after each frustrating session the answer shows itself and we continue with the development. We're at repeatable .75moa, but I've also had some .5moa 5 round groups, but not with enough repeatablity. We've moved to 10 round groups now.

Going back through all of the data sheets we've kept on every single shot since the rifle arrived I found something that should have been obvious earlier. There are an incredible number of combinations of projectile weight, case weight, TTL, sizing, neck tension (very important) and seat depths with these cartridges and this very particular rifle. I hadn't gone through the changes in seat depth after entering the new TTL. Neck tension had changed because of the amount of neck gripping the bearing surface of the projectile, and that affected both MV and POI. You wouldn't think that neck tension would affect MV all that much, but add neck tension and seat depth (freebore) and everything changes.
I'll keep you posted with results from time to time.
Thanks!

Latigo
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14 years 1 month ago #5660 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
WOW, I can see I have alot to learn....I would say I am in reloading kindergarten :laugh: but I think Pre-school would be more accurate.... :laugh: ;) :silly: for my level of reloading....just glad it makes it out the end of the barrel.... :dry:
BMS

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14 years 1 month ago - 14 years 1 month ago #5695 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
zfk55,

I also weight and sort all my bullets. In addition to weighing the bullets, after I trim the Win brass to length, etc., I weigh and sort all my brass. I then place them in my plastic boxes by their sorted weights. So, when I shoot, I shoot 5-shot groups with everything the same weight, lenghts, etc.

I haven't been able to beat a 1/2 inch group at 100 yards yet, but I'm still working on it. I'm shooting a stock AR-10T, 20" with 1x11 twist, so I've settled on the 155 gr Sierra Palma Match King. If I want to shoot the heaver bullets like the 175 gr, I'd have to rebarrel with a 1x10 twist. I assume that's what you are using a 1x10 twist.

Neck tension changes your MV and POI because more neck tension causes the pressure to build more inside the brass before the bullet is ejected from the brass. This then increases velocity which changes your barrel timing (vibration of your barrel up and down). To gain the best accuracy, you want your barrel to be at its peak or null in the barrel's vibration pendulum. If the bullet exits the barrel in the center of the barrel's pendulum arc (the barrels fastest movement in the pendulum arc), your timing is very difficult to match shot to shot. If you time the velocity to be at the barrels' peak or null by changing the amount of powder, neck tension, and other factors that change MV, you will find your 5-shot groups will be more consistent. This is why you reload, to time your barrel. All barrels resonate at a different frequency and this is why a good load for one rifle may not work in an identical rifle.

Jer
Last edit: 14 years 1 month ago by JustMe.

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14 years 1 month ago #5697 by Edge
Replied by Edge on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
I use to do it, but have not for a while now. The shooting comps that I enter I haven't needed to. If I ever get into F-Class, I may do it again.

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14 years 1 month ago - 14 years 1 month ago #5719 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
BMS,

If you don't want to reload, another alternative is to tune your barrel by changing the barrel's resonance frequency. You can do this for a particular round you prefer like your beloved Hornadies. You can tune your barrel to your store bought rounds several ways:
1) keep milling a little length off your barrel until the groups tighten. The concept is as you shorten the barrel, the resonate frequency changes like a shorter tuning fork has a higher frequency than a longer tuning fork. So you will eventually match your barrel's vibration to the MV of your bullet.
2) or you can add a threaded weigh to the end of your barrel. This was first accomplished by the British SAS snipers and then adopted by Browning on their rifles. Tuning is accomplished by screwing the weight in and out until the barrel's resonance freq matches your favorite Hornady rounds.
3) or add one of those rubber barrel sleeves to your barrel manufactured by Limb Saver. This concept is to move the Limb Saver sleeve forward and aft to tune your barrel.
4) or use the Savage rifle approach by placing a wedge in the forearm that wedges against the bottom of the barrel (opposite of floating the barrel). The concept is to move the wedge forward and aft with a screw mechanism along the underside of the barrel until your groups tighten. The wedge artificially changes the length of the barrel being floated which changes the barrel's resonance frequency thus matching the barrel to your beloved Hornadies.

Adding one of these adjustable barrel tuners also allows you to change ammo later and still tune your barrel to the new ammo.
Say if you find some cheaper ammo.

I image those who keep screwing a silencer on and off their barrel's see a significant change in their group sizes and POI. This is cased because they are changing the resonate frequency of their barrels so it doesn't match their rounds anymore and the silencer creats more pressure inside the barrel.

Something you might want to consider, Jer
Last edit: 14 years 1 month ago by JustMe.

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14 years 5 days ago #5985 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Update:
Success! Repeatable success. The one thing missing from the formula was as simple as the right die. In this case, the Redding Competition Sizer with the right sized bushing. I was already using the Competition Seater. We went from a nominal repeatable 1 to 1.2" right down to the smallest 5 shot at .29 and the largest spread at .70. Repeatable for a string of 25 rounds.
I'll post the entire process later today.

Latigo
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14 years 5 days ago #5987 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Wow Latigo....I can't even begin to imagine all that you and your dad do....God I would love to come and spend a week with you guys and learn all I can....
Look forward to the post....


Oh and JUST ME.>>>>>. I never said I don't want to reload...I am still in reloading Pre School...so I still have alot to learn...
A WHOLE LOT.....but I fear I will be to old by the time I get to where you guys are.....
so I just load um and shoot um.... :dry:
BMS

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14 years 5 days ago #5988 by Edge
Replied by Edge on topic Re:Do you sort for reloading?
Awesome!!!

Glad to hear you've found the right combo. Look forward to seeing your process.

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