165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!

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9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago #44660 by jtallen83
165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE! was created by jtallen83
I finally got around to testing some loads for a box of 165 gr Barnes XBT's I've had for several years, got them for $10 a box. Turns out they aren't worth even that to me! I loaded 12 of them with H4895 in 3 round sets, just above minimum, just below max, and then two sets splitting the middle. Not one bullet hit within 1 1/2 inches of another, I've seen buckshot group better!
I do have problems getting good groups using the messed up shooting positions at our local 100 yard range but I was getting 1 1/2 inch and under 5 shot groups with ZQ M80 ball and did a test with 175 SMK's set up just like the Barnes except 5 rounds per set, same powder, primers, cases, and prep. The SMK's put out a 2 inch group for all 20 rounds and that was mostly vertical with only a 3/4 inch width.
I guess my rifle just doesn't like the XBT's, glad I got them cheap.....
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by jtallen83.

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9 years 7 months ago #44666 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic 165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!
What do you think was the issue.

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9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago #44667 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic 165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!
My hunch is the twist rate, they may work better in a 1:10 rate instead of my 1:11.25. The XBT's are an all copper bullet so a bit longer for the weight compared to the SMK's. They also appear to have less bearing surface for the rifling to grab, too much math for me to confirm that.
They are also some of the earlier vintage all copper Barnes bullets so it could be they just didn't have them fine tuned yet.


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Maybe with some further work I could find an acceptable hunting load but odds are the box will be near empty by then!
I was real pleased and suprised with the 175 SMK's, I haven't had great results with most of the factory match ammo using that bullet except Freedom Munitions match ammo.
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by jtallen83.

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9 years 7 months ago #44668 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic 165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!
JT,
Did you try the ladder test to see where the sweet spot was for these XBT bullets using various powder charges. Whenever I buy a new bullet or powder, I like to use the ladder test to see what this new component prefers in my rifle. The ladder test can save you a lot of time and expense and maybe you won't have to use a whole box of bullets to figure out what it likes.
Jer

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9 years 7 months ago #44669 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic 165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!
Just the 4 different loads but they covered the range of acceptable charges, %5 over minimum and %5 under max with 2 in the middle. I know that is a bit large a spread for a true ladder test but I was trying to conserve bullets. If any of the loads had grouped anywhere close I'd have narrowed down the range of loads and tried some more but none of them gave the impression of being close to a decent group.

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9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago #44670 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic 165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!
JT,
I think you'll find using the ladder test will save you more bullets than picking a Max, Mid, and Low powder charge group of 3 round sets. The sort of random 3 round groups you selected still ended up making you scratch your head wondering why they aren't grouping well -- is it the bullets or the powder charges? Change your powder charge every 0.5 grains from low to high, 1 round at each charge (approx 20 rounds total). Then once you see where the most bullets group, that's the powder charge range you start to fine tune around by loading your 3-5 round groups of 0.1 gr changes. I think once you start using the ladder test, you'll never go back to your present method of trying various 3-5 round groups since the ladder test saves so much time, components, and money by quickly narrowing down what powder charges will work and what will not.

It is very possible the 4 powder charges you randomly chose are all bad powder loads that your rifle does not like thus giving you the impression the bullets are bad when maybe in reality it's the powder charges you selected which are bad.

Jer
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by JustMe.
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9 years 7 months ago #44671 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic 165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!
I'll give them another try then. I have used the method you recommend in the past, dividing up the given range of loads by 20. I had done this with 175 SMK's but just couldn't be sure the difference was the load or me, hence the 5 round sets I tried this last time. Still couldn't tell much difference between the loads, it looked like the hotter end was the best group,
but then I may have just been settling inn..... :unsure:

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9 years 7 months ago #44672 by Libertarian623
Replied by Libertarian623 on topic 165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!
JT - I am not fan of the XTB , also remember that the bore has to be cleaned very well (like scoured) between testing with copper solids and other bullets. two different alloys , and two different deposit patterns and rates.
As far a ladder tests, all depends on the level of accuracy your after. As I posted in my mid winter post for me I was after the absolute best long range round for my rifle , I am sure by mid summer I will have stretched it out to 1400m. There was no compromise in the load development and for our ladder test ( to find the node) we where doing 3 shot groups. As I said within three hours we had found it and exploited it. Very lucky. The first fifty rounds along with the R&D came in at just shy of 250.00. It was money well spent, that is the only round that will ever be fired out of that rifle from here out. I wanted extreme accuracy, as in 1/2MOA and occasionally better with sub MOA past 1K. I think I am there we will see this summer. When we did that the initial ladder test we had a 1/2 grain spread on the charges. The best node was in the 2650 range. Its all laid out in my post along with the specifics. Hope this helps in a way.
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9 years 7 months ago #44673 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic 165 gr BARNES XBT FAIL! 175 SMK's NICE!
Thanks for the tips, I wasn't aware of the issue with different copper alloys. I'll scrub the bore and try and find a good load for the XBT's I have left but think I will be searching for a better, more conventional hunting bullet to work up a load on. I don't see myself taking a shot at game over 300 yards so I'll most likely go with the good old cheap standby of GameKings.
Wish I had more time at the reloading bench but then I better grab the little opportunity I have right now being home every weekend, maybe our urban deer herd can help me with the lawn chores this summer.......

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