1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule

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9 years 11 months ago #44741 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
In the two photos, you can see the damaged case that the gunsmith took over 2 mo to get out. He said he wished he had never seen the gun and it was a pain in the rear. The whole back third of the case was what went through the mule and the stock of the other gun.
In the other picture you can see the hole in the mule with the gun in the relative position it was in when I did this.

I measured the case width of thereloads that were getting stuck compared to a factory round and discovered that the reload cases were .003 inches wider than the factory cases. I guess that was enough to cause the case to get stuck.

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9 years 11 months ago #44742 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
Looks like shooting the rds backwards can be quite deadly.

Reminds me when I did some LAWS training. We were out on the range and the instructor told us to be extremely careful as the rear blast area had a larger kill zone that the round itself...of course I had to raise my hand and ask the question: Well then maybe we should be point the rear at the enemy...he did not think it was funny but everyone else did... :rotfl:

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9 years 11 months ago - 9 years 11 months ago #44751 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
The old LAWS didn't have a good rep. The US should have done what the Russkies did, take the WW 2 German Panzerfaust, modify and improve it, and manufacture millions of them. Ala the RPG.
Last edit: 9 years 11 months ago by Siscowet.

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9 years 11 months ago #44764 by GGaskill
Replied by GGaskill on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
... the instructor told us to be extremely careful as the rear blast area had a larger kill zone that the round itself ...

True I am sure, but much shorter range. Although if the enemy is coming through the wire, it might be appropriate.

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9 years 10 months ago #45085 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
The final update. I had reloaded those rounds with a neck size only die from RCBS. A new Gander Mountain opened up a few miles down the road and in visiting today I found Hornady custom Full Length dies in .243. I thought what the heck, so I bought it, brought it home and took some of the reloaded 243, removed the bullets and powder and put them in the chamber of the Weatherby. They wouldn't chamber. Then I resized them with the Hornady FL dies and they slid right into the chamber. Problem solved and I didn't have to throw away the old brass.
Now, one more question. If a Full Length die resizes the entire length of the brass down to the base , and a small base die does that as well, what is the difference between small base dies and full length dies?

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9 years 10 months ago #45086 by GGaskill
Replied by GGaskill on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
The small base die reduces the case diameter more than the standard die. They are normally used for self loading rifles that don't have as powerful extraction as a manually operated bolt action.

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9 years 10 months ago #45087 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
That, I understand. Are you saying the FL dies are standard dies? I thought the standard dies only resized the neck?????

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9 years 10 months ago #45088 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule

foxhunter wrote: That, I understand. Are you saying the FL dies are standard dies? I thought the standard dies only resized the neck?????

Nope, you have neck sizing,Full length sizing, and small base sizing dies as the most common three types. Full length dies are usually set up to be real close to minimum standards where a small base die goes well past the minimum for extra clearance. Some makers have even more variations on the main three but these are the basics.

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9 years 10 months ago #45089 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
Now it makes sense. Thanks.

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9 years 10 months ago #45099 by DocSkinner
Replied by DocSkinner on topic 1 rd totally F'd up 2 rifles and a Kawasaki Mule
By buying the small base dies, you are guaranteed that the die will size to the minimum SAAMI dimensions. As you can see - it is a tiny difference - and within wear limits of reamers.

If you happen to get a set of regular FL dies that were first up with a new reamer, they may actually be "Small base" dies. Just no guarantee. If the reamer is a bit worn, it might be a few thousands over minimum, but still below maximum SAAMI dimensions.

Small base is most important in autoloaders and pump action rifles, and then not in all of those. My R25 feeds my .308 cases from a standard FL RCBS die just fine. BUT - that is what is in my rifles with the reamer they happened to be using on that barrel that day. And so this variance is not only between manufacturers, but can be within rifles from the same manufacturer.


Most every reloading manual specifically states to only neck size IF THE CARTRIDGE IS ONLY TO BE SHOT IN THE SAME RIFLE.

You have learned exactly why they put that in every manual.

And why every handloader should READ their manuals and do what they say - not take random advice on what has worked for some random person on their particularly rifles (see this all the time - "I only neck size and they work fine in all my rifles" - That person just got lucky, it doesn't mean it works for everyone)


As others stated, the standard die is to full length size. the neck sizer is a special case die to save wear on brass and for accuracy purposes in a single rifle. hat also doesn't always work. on a rare occasion some chambers are ever so slightly out of round and and a neck sized may have difficulty chamber unless back in the perfect orientation. (Benchrest shooters often mark the cartridge orientation and put it back in in the same orientation each time.)


Not trying to hammer you too hard - but this is a very important topic for all handloaders and especially new ones, to read and get it.

This thread should be a sticky at the top of every reloading section on all the different boards. So thank you for posting and showing others why they should read their manuals, and do what the manuals state.

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