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The height of ARROGANCE

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10 years 7 months ago - 10 years 7 months ago #38464 by OleCowboy
Climate control or the attempt thereof is on its way and I suspect Obama will implement it this coming year as the drum beat is getting higher and higher.

There is NOTHING that can be done to alter our climate good or bad, but the govt will use this report as it does other to initiate more taxes and global government control...here the key word is CONTROL, has NOTHING to do with climate!

Not too long after Mt St Helens blew I made a trip up to the summit. While there is much I could say and write about that trip in short, the realization that all the worlds BILLIONAIRES and their govts could not alter the course of Mt St Helens. Being there was the most humbling experience of my life.

As for countries that made an effort to live with better rules for clean air water etc etc, one country stands alone and that is the US. Most of the world does nothing or very little. Of course this will be the wedge issue by the UN to achieve income distribution...if only the people of the US so rich $$$ give to the countries of the world they too can have clean air and water. This has been the UN mantra since the late 70's and Agenda 21.


Climate Change Deemed Growing Security Threat by Military Researchers
By CORAL DAVENPORTMAY 13, 2014

Secretary of State John Kerry indicated that a report’s findings on the rate of climate change would influence foreign policy. Credit Jim Lo Scalzo/European Pressphoto Agency

WASHINGTON — The accelerating rate of climate change poses a severe risk to national security and acts as a catalyst for global political conflict, a report published Tuesday by a leading government-funded military research organization concluded.

The CNA Corporation Military Advisory Board found that climate change-induced drought in the Middle East and Africa is leading to conflicts over food and water and escalating longstanding regional and ethnic tensions into violent clashes. The report also found that rising sea levels are putting people and food supplies in vulnerable coastal regions like eastern India, Bangladesh and the Mekong Delta in Vietnam at risk and could lead to a new wave of refugees.

In addition, the report predicted that an increase in catastrophic weather events around the world will create more demand for American troops, even as flooding and extreme weather events at home could damage naval ports and military bases.

In an interview, Secretary of State John Kerry signaled that the report’s findings would influence American foreign policy.

“Tribes are killing each other over water today,” Mr. Kerry said. “Think of what happens if you have massive dislocation, or the drying up of the waters of the Nile, of the major rivers in China and India. The intelligence community takes it seriously, and it’s translated into action.”

Mr. Kerry, who plans to deliver a major speech this summer on the links between climate change and national security, said his remarks would also be aimed at building political support for President Obama’s climate change agenda, including a new regulation to cut pollution from coal-fired power plants that the administration will introduce in June.

“We’re going to try to lay out to people legitimate options for action that are not bank-breaking or negative,” Mr. Kerry said.

Pentagon officials said the report would affect military policy. “The department certainly agrees that climate change is having an impact on national security, whether by increasing global instability, by opening the Arctic or by increasing sea level and storm surge near our coastal installations,” John Conger, the Pentagon’s deputy under secretary of defense for installations and environment, said in a statement. “We are actively integrating climate considerations across the full spectrum of our activities to ensure a ready and resilient force.”

The report on Tuesday follows a recent string of scientific studies that warn that the effects of climate change are already occurring and that flooding, droughts, extreme storms, food and water shortages and damage to infrastructure will occur in the near future.

In March, the Pentagon’s Quadrennial Defense Review, the agency’s main public document describing the current doctrine of the United States military, drew a direct link between the effects of global warming — like rising sea levels and extreme weather patterns — and terrorism.

“These effects are threat multipliers that will aggravate stressors abroad, such as poverty, environmental degradation, political instability and social tensions — conditions that can enable terrorist activity and other forms of violence,” the review said.


Tuesday’s report is an update of a report by the center’s Military Advisory Board in 2007, the first major study to draw the link between climate change and national security. The report’s authors said the biggest change in the seven years between the two studies was the increase in scientific certainty about global warming, and of the link between global warming and security disruptions.

The 2007 report also described climate change as a “threat multiplier” or a problem that could enhance or contribute to already existing causes of global disruption. The 2014 report updates that language, calling climate change a “catalyst for conflict” — a phrase intentionally chosen, the report’s authors said, to signal that climate change is an active, driving force in starting conflict.

“In the past, the thinking was that climate change multiplied the significance of a situation,” said Gen. Charles F. Wald, who contributed to both reports and is retired from the Air Force. “Now we’re saying it’s going to be a direct cause of instability.”

The most recent scientific reports on climate change warn that increasing drought in Africa is now turning arable land to desert. The national security report’s authors conclude that the slow but steady expansion of the Sahara through Mali, which is killing crops and leaving farmers starving, may have been a contributing force in the jihadist uprising in that African country in 2012. Since then, Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb has seized control of northern Mali and remains in conflict with the Malian government.

The report warns that rising sea levels in the United States imperil many of the Navy’s coastal installations. Last week, the White House released a National Climate Assessment report citing Norfolk, Va., as one of the cities most vulnerable to damage by rising sea levels. Norfolk is home to the world’s largest naval base as well as a nuclear submarine construction yard — all of which are vulnerable to destruction by rising sea levels, found in Tuesday’s report.

“Norfolk is so big, it’s so important to the Navy, it’s important to Virginia for jobs, and it would go,” General Wald said.

A scientific report released this week found that global warming has contributed to the melting of a large section of a West Antarctica ice sheet, which could lead to a rise in sea level of 10 feet or more.

Senator James M. Inhofe of Oklahoma, the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee and a vocal skeptic of the established science that greenhouse gas emissions contribute to global warming, scoffed at the idea that climate change is linked to national security threats.

“There is no one in more pursuit of publicity than a retired military officer,” he said of the report’s authors. “I look back wistfully at the days of the Cold War. Now you have people who are mentally imbalanced, with the ability to deploy a nuclear weapon. For anyone to say that any type of global warming is anywhere close to the threat that we have with crazy people running around with nuclear weapons, it shows how desperate they are to get the public to buy this.”

Rear Adm. David Titley, a co-author of the report and a meteorologist who is retired from the Navy, said political opposition would not extinguish what he called the indisputable data in the report.

“The ice doesn’t care about politics or who’s caucusing with whom, or Democrats or Republicans,” said Admiral Titley, who now directs the Center for Solutions to Weather and Climate Risk at Pennsylvania State University.


www.nytimes.com/2014/05/14/us/politics/c...ers.html?ref=us&_r=1
Last edit: 10 years 7 months ago by OleCowboy.

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10 years 7 months ago #38488 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The height of ARROGANCE
I have been involved for planning for climate change on the local, state, and Federal level for the last ten years. Having listened to a lot of scientific presentations on the subject, I am convinced it is real. The question is, how we respond. Projections show a world wide bottleneck of resources around 2040-2050. Planning for who will be impacted is important. If it is one of the 600 pound gorillas such as Russia or China, the 800 pound gorilla, us, better be prepared, as it could very well trigger territorial conquest to acquire more resources. The question is, how it will impact us, and will we end up with martial law.

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10 years 7 months ago #38489 by SOC
Replied by SOC on topic The height of ARROGANCE

Siscowet wrote: I have been involved for planning for climate change on the local, state, and Federal level for the last ten years. Having listened to a lot of scientific presentations on the subject, I am convinced it is real. The question is, how we respond. Projections show a world wide bottleneck of resources around 2040-2050. Planning for who will be impacted is important. If it is one of the 600 pound gorillas such as Russia or China, the 800 pound gorilla, us, better be prepared, as it could very well trigger territorial conquest to acquire more resources. The question is, how it will impact us, and will we end up with martial law.


That's all well and good with the following exceptions.

The UAH reported in April that for the past 30 years global composite temp has varied less than .7C (spike in 1997) and currently we are only .2C over the mean for 30 years.

NASA has concluded that CO2 has a cooling effect on atmosphere, not a warming effect.

Also the IPSC changed the way they measure sea level via sat and ocean sensors. Without the change the apparent sea level rise drops below the margin for error.

The assumptions that climate scientists have based models and predictions on are being exposed as flawed.



As far as the bottle neck... We are having major strides in fusion power, recently the Brits got more energy than expended.

Quite simple, fossil fuel, and "green" energy are about to become entirely obsolete.

Human kind is on the verge of unlocking more clean, cheap, limitless energy than it knows what to do with.

In the next 20-30 years we will likely be mining asteroids, walking on moons orbiting other planets and sending probes to the nearest stars.

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10 years 7 months ago #38494 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The height of ARROGANCE

SOC wrote:

Siscowet wrote: I have been involved for planning for climate change on the local, state, and Federal level for the last ten years. Having listened to a lot of scientific presentations on the subject, I am convinced it is real. The question is, how we respond. Projections show a world wide bottleneck of resources around 2040-2050. Planning for who will be impacted is important. If it is one of the 600 pound gorillas such as Russia or China, the 800 pound gorilla, us, better be prepared, as it could very well trigger territorial conquest to acquire more resources. The question is, how it will impact us, and will we end up with martial law.


That's all well and good with the following exceptions.

The UAH reported in April that for the past 30 years global composite temp has varied less than .7C (spike in 1997) and currently we are only .2C over the mean for 30 years.

NASA has concluded that CO2 has a cooling effect on atmosphere, not a warming effect.

Also the IPSC changed the way they measure sea level via sat and ocean sensors. Without the change the apparent sea level rise drops below the margin for error.

The assumptions that climate scientists have based models and predictions on are being exposed as flawed.



As far as the bottle neck... We are having major strides in fusion power, recently the Brits got more energy than expended.

Quite simple, fossil fuel, and "green" energy are about to become entirely obsolete.

Human kind is on the verge of unlocking more clean, cheap, limitless energy than it knows what to do with.

In the next 20-30 years we will likely be mining asteroids, walking on moons orbiting other planets and sending probes to the nearest stars.

One comment: don't count your chickens before they hatch.
At current plans and congressional funding for NASA, it will be the Chinese and Russians mining the moon and astroids. You probably saw the brouhaha about Russian boosters this week. The US doesn't even make their own heavy booster rockets anymore. Climate change planning is done on current technology changing slowly. We have hydrogen cars, they work and could be implemented. But we are fracking and tar sands mining because the oil companies see that as more profitable right now, so more carbon dioxide. I honestly hope you are right, but it is the old adage. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

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10 years 7 months ago #38497 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The height of ARROGANCE

Siscowet wrote: I have been involved for planning for climate change on the local, state, and Federal level for the last ten years. Having listened to a lot of scientific presentations on the subject, I am convinced it is real. The question is, how we respond. Projections show a world wide bottleneck of resources around 2040-2050. Planning for who will be impacted is important. If it is one of the 600 pound gorillas such as Russia or China, the 800 pound gorilla, us, better be prepared, as it could very well trigger territorial conquest to acquire more resources. The question is, how it will impact us, and will we end up with martial law.


Way back in school our science teacher brought in a light bulb looking thing with 4 paddles in it. One side was black, the other white. Put it in the window and it would spin quite fast due to the vacuum and the suns ray hitting the white side. This really wowed me. Then the teacher talked about the future of solar energy. This led me to be an advocate of solar, wind, conservation and a host of other things that are in that realm.

Then in the 60's it was Global cooling, the new ice age coming our way. Then the 70 and suddenly its was global warming and the big mouthpiece in the US has become Al Gore. So where did all this originate? The United Nations and its core document Agenda 21.

As time has gone by I have lost much of my advocacy.

Solar: Not there yet (I keep hoping) but at best available solar panels are around 35% efficient and are used by NASA, not buy us due to prohibited costs.

Wind: limited potential as its based upon the wind blowing. The most successful wind implementation is here in Texas, we lead the US in wind power by a wide margin...it might be noted its all on private lands.

Global warming: More facts against it than for it and the GW crowd is FULL of more hype and falsehoods than anything else. Most govts across the world are for it and that effort is being pushed down to the states and cities. This is the implementation of Agenda 21, nothing more.

GW solutions: Well there is only two that want to tax and to control you, this means control your home HVAC system, its called smart meters, control where and when you go, its called electric cars.

Anyone notice that Al Gore has become worth over $200 million from GW, govts stand to take in TRILLIONS in taxes and control your every movement.

Have you seen our govt do a damn thing about GW? NO, you won't, it does not apply to them, it applies to you, yet the biggest user of resources is govts.

The opportunity for efficiency is staggering, yet not a single thing is done by our govt to effect improvements. Many are near free such as home design and building techniques.

Remember when nuclear energy plants would be our savior? I do and it resulted in the most expensive electricity in the US in the NW.

Will there be a resource crunch? Sure at some time in the future, my guess long after your grandkids are dead and gone.

Got friends in the oil exploration business. YEARS ago they told me this: All that oil in Tex in those oil fields does NOT stop at the Rio Grande! Mexico does not drill below 9000ft and its BIG oil down below that level.

I could on and on, been following this all of my adult life. GW will not stand the light of day and if you want to find out the real goal, then read Agenda 21 and most of all FOLLOW the MONEY trail!



Maunder Minimum (from my blog, 7 July 2009)

In case you didn't catch it as it was buried news, but they are predicting that the coming year(s)? will see the lowest number of sunspots in at least 100 years. Secondly, follow the money as they say and Owl Hore has made a neat little nest egg of over $100M bucks since leaving office in 2000. Not bad for selling BULLSHIT! Enough said, the following are some quotes from respected sources and scientists at NASA, Climate Science International and Accuweather

The Maunder Minimum

"Early records of sunspots indicate that the Sun went through a period of inactivity in the late 17th century. Very few sunspots were seen on the Sun from about 1645 to 1715. Although the observations were not as extensive as in later years, the Sun was in fact well observed during this time and this lack of sunspots is well documented. This period of solar inactivity also corresponds to a climatic period called the "Little Ice Age" when rivers that are normally ice-free froze and snow fields remained year-round at lower altitudes. There is evidence that the Sun has had similar periods of inactivity in the more distant past. The connection between solar activity and terrestrial climate is an area of on-going research."

solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/SunspotCycle.shtml

"While sunspots affect numerous things one them is our world weather...fewer sunspots = cooler weather."

www.climatescienceinternational.org/inde...oling&catid=1:latest

"How does this relate to global warming? As previously expounded on by Brett and I, a lack of sunspots means a quiet sun, which means a slight reduction in the amount of energy from the sun that reaches the earth, which should mean a slight cooling trend. Again, research the Maunder Minimum and its role in the "Little Ice Age".

global-warming.accuweather.com/2009/06/s...tivity_update_1.html

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10 years 7 months ago #38499 by foxhunter
Replied by foxhunter on topic The height of ARROGANCE
We could all go crazy, and paranoid, about the possibility of an asteroid hit, a man made or solar EMP strike, a volcano at Yellowstone, a New Madrid fault megaquake, rising sea levels, world war 3, total economic collapse, a killer virus, etc. As far as I can tell, the only one in history who accurately predicted a major calamity was Noah. Some things you just can't prepare for, but I suspect most of us on this forum are better prepared than most.

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10 years 7 months ago #38502 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The height of ARROGANCE
You are dead on Fox. Trying to solve perceived problems years and years out is truly crossing bridges before they are built.

Looking towards the future beyond 10 years in very difficult to be even marginally on on paper let alone anywhere on target.

In 1973/4 it was believed by scientists etc etc the world had achieved "PEAK OIL". I don't know anyone in the oil business that felt that way. Well we didn't hit peak oil then and subsequent predictions have also been wrong.

IF the govt was concerned, I mean REALLY concerned something other than TAXES would be the answer.

How about this:

The US govt call in the heads of major oil companies, utility companies, schools that focus on energy such as Texas A&M, Univ Tex, Colorado School of Mines etc, (but leave out so called Professors who would not know sweet crude from not sweet crude by tasting it). Build a consortium of the best PRACTICING energy producers and engineers. Their mission to find a substitute for oil based energy. Funding will come from the oil business with matching funds from the Fed-taxpayer.

At the end of each year the chosen CEO will show progress or be gone. Any patents or other valuable property will be shared equally with all to include the US Taxpayer.

Their mission to solve the energy crises of tomorrow! Jimmy Carter formed the Dept of Energy with this same mission back around 1980. To Date along with about 16,000 employees and a $25 BILLION budget they have produced nothing!

Anyone here think the govt is really concerned??????????? OR do they just want you tax money and control your life?

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10 years 7 months ago #38503 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The height of ARROGANCE

foxhunter wrote: We could all go crazy, and paranoid, about the possibility of an asteroid hit, a man made or solar EMP strike, a volcano at Yellowstone, a New Madrid fault megaquake, rising sea levels, world war 3, total economic collapse, a killer virus, etc. As far as I can tell, the only one in history who accurately predicted a major calamity was Noah. Some things you just can't prepare for, but I suspect most of us on this forum are better prepared than most.

I think you are right, about the preparation, although I would rather have the Pentagon types at least thinking about the future and plotting possible scenarios than not.
Global warming, I think it is something we just agree to disagree.
You either believe the evidence or not. And your right in that we cannot accurately tell thhe effect of it in the future. Best guess scenarios are just that, best guess. On a local level, I instituted a program to oversize all our town culverts above specifications. They were sized to deal with a once every 50 year rainfall event. We sized them to deal with a once every hundred year rainfall event. Since then in the last three years we have had two rainfalls in the 8 to 10 inch range that qualify as a I in 100 years rainfall events. Because of advance planning, we lost three roads instead of dozens.
Planning for climate change can often be as simple as that. And don't think of it as global warming, think of it as climate change whether due to man or due to natural earth cycles. It is happening, we just don't know for sure what the outcomes will be.
personally I am a fatalist and think the SHTF in the next 30 to 40 years. The cause? Don't know. But too many statistical curves are merging in the near future. I am talking odds, by the way, no one can predict to a reasonable degree what will happen. But it is a lot like playing the stock market. When a lot of warning curves intersect, sell. When they start to separate, buy. Can't really prepare for what you don't know. But you try. At my age it is my son's issue, not mine.

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10 years 7 months ago #38504 by bipe215
Replied by bipe215 on topic The height of ARROGANCE
If you were to draw a timeline across your living room floor (say 20 feet), that represented the total age of planet earth (how ever many millions), the last 120 years (the time we have kept accurate temp records) would be thinner than a piece of note book paper. It is quite arrogant to assume that such a sliver of time means anything at all climate wise. This planet has been through more than we have ever done to it, and likely will endure more than we can ever do.

Steve

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10 years 7 months ago #38505 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The height of ARROGANCE

bipe215 wrote: If you were to draw a timeline across your living room floor (say 20 feet), that represented the total age of planet earth (how ever many millions), the last 120 years (the time we have kept accurate temp records) would be thinner than a piece of note book paper. It is quite arrogant to assume that such a sliver of time means anything at all climate wise. This planet has been through more than we have ever done to it, and likely will endure more than we can ever do.

Steve

Exactly, you don't have to believe that man has anything to do with it. And if you look at natural history, one thing is clear: climate change naturally is a continuous process that never stops. Man may be affecting it, but it would happen anyway. What is improving is the ability to predict that change over time. And being able to predict climate change, whether man caused or not, can save billions of dollars. I would be more critical if the government wasn't at least trying to plan for the future. Will I agree with everything they do or say? No. But it beats them sitting on their butt and doing nothing.

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