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Obama's speach on gun control today

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11 years 11 months ago - 11 years 11 months ago #15791 by Moby
Obama's speach on gun control today was created by Moby
I noticed that Obama did not talk about the 23 executive actions he signed today.

There are a couple things he did mention I agree with.

Universal background checks - A lot of gang banger get guns through private sales. In states where you can sell a firearm at a gun show without a background check, I'm OK with stopping that.

Punish those that purchase guns to resell them to criminals. (This includes Eric Holder & Obama) Background checks and selling firearms through FFL's is OK by me.

Support for armed officers at schools. The problem with this is it's been done in the past and then the politians pull the funding. I support retired cops willing to offer a couples days a month to patrol schools.

The deliberate avoidance to discuss the other 20 executive actions leads me to believe i will not like them. These are the only three talked about I agree with.

In my opinion the only thing that will stop an evil man from killing at a school is allowing schools to have armed people to stop him.
Last edit: 11 years 11 months ago by Moby.

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11 years 11 months ago - 11 years 11 months ago #15793 by Libertarian623
Replied by Libertarian623 on topic Obama's speach on gun control today
I think that a couple of things are clear

1 It is apparent that he is not willing to spend much time on the assault weapons ban. (he only mentioned it once)

2 He does understand the only way shootings are going to decrease, is for there to be a armed response.

3 The liberal media is attempting to spin it totally away from its intent.
Last edit: 11 years 11 months ago by Libertarian623.

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11 years 11 months ago #15797 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Obama's speach on gun control today
I do not agree with interfering with personal sales, doing so will solve nothing. Background checks are another discussion, but I don't much care for them either, given the abuse of the system.
Secondly, straw purchasing is already against the law so redundancy here is pointless as well. Having security at schools is a good idea, if done right. I would rather see an end to the 'gun free zones' and let ccw permit holders do what they do best, provide deterrence. Once bad guys know that any number of armed staff could possibly be present to respond to threats, the schools stop being easy targets. There is no need to budget for ccw so that works itself out.

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11 years 11 months ago #15799 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Obama's speach on gun control today
The biggest straw purchase I've heard of lately was supervised by the ATF.........I wonder if they will ever be charged :whistle:

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11 years 11 months ago #15800 by Moby
Replied by Moby on topic Obama's speach on gun control today

13fcolt wrote: I do not agree with interfering with personal sales, doing so will solve nothing. Background checks are another discussion, but I don't much care for them either, given the abuse of the system.


What are your thoughts on personal gun sales? No background check for me selling my Glock to Jose in Detroit? Why not? You had to get one to buy it, I had to get one to buy it. If a BG wanted to buy a firearm, couldn't he just search the internet and buy one without a background check? That sounds like a possible problem.

I am unaware of abuse of background checks. I do believe however they could happen. Can anyone elaborate on an abuse of this? I've had several with no hitches.

As for CCW holders in schools that's a no brainer. Armed teachers and administrators are exactly why Israel no longer has a school shooting issue. Before the federal "gun free" zones at schools there were two school shootings. Since the Gun Free zones....12 school shootings. Armed teachers ARE the answer.

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11 years 11 months ago #15804 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Obama's speach on gun control today
Background checks have and continue to be abused. Specifically, I'm referring to the Department of Veteran Affairs giving up some 19,000 names to the NICS. The standards set for disqualifying mental "issues" change with the political weather. Needles to say, many of my brothers do not get the help they need for fear of losing their rights and for many more it is already too late. I can speak first hand, they try to MAKE you have ptsd with the way the questions are structured. Once I had made the mistake of answering yes I have been in combat, then the second question gets asked, "do you have access to firearms?" It comes Before any evaluation is done and has everything to do with the outcome. I could go on, but I wont, it really disgusts me.

My beef with interfering with face-to-face sales is that doing so validates the idea that availability of firearms is the problem, it is not. It's just common sense. A bad guy bent on murder can't be considered to have regard for lesser laws like if his firearms transaction is legal. Anyone that can't pass a background check simply goes through other channels, adding more restrictions to us good guys has never stopped that before. I already can't sell across state lines without going through an FFL, telling me I can't sell across the street without a dealer can't be expected to have any more impact on crime.

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11 years 11 months ago #15807 by Moby
Replied by Moby on topic Obama's speach on gun control today

13fcolt wrote: Background checks have and continue to be abused. Specifically, I'm referring to the Department of Veteran Affairs giving up some 19,000 names to the NICS. The standards set for disqualifying mental "issues" change with the political weather. Needles to say, many of my brothers do not get the help they need for fear of losing their rights and for many more it is already too late. I can speak first hand, they try to MAKE you have ptsd with the way the questions are structured. Once I had made the mistake of answering yes I have been in combat, then the second question gets asked, "do you have access to firearms?" It comes Before any evaluation is done and has everything to do with the outcome. I could go on, but I wont, it really disgusts me.


That's interesting. I did not know HIPA laws did not apply to the VA. I recently got a total hip replacement at the VA. I've been using the VA for 20+ years. I've never been asked any questions like this. Never a word on firearms, military history, or anything like this. I've used three different VA hospitals over the years. I've not "just come back from Iraq either" so things may be different.

13fcolt wrote: My beef with interfering with face-to-face sales is that doing so validates the idea that availability of firearms is the problem, it is not. It's just common sense. A bad guy bent on murder can't be considered to have regard for lesser laws like if his firearms transaction is legal. Anyone that can't pass a background check simply goes through other channels, adding more restrictions to us good guys has never stopped that before. I already can't sell across state lines without going through an FFL, telling me I can't sell across the street without a dealer can't be expected to have any more impact on crime.


I persoanlly (and forgive me if we disagree here) think all gun sales should have a background check. A friend of mine was recently offered an AR 15 and several mags for $400. I told him it was a stollen firearm. He passed. But this is eactly how stollen firearms are sold.

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11 years 11 months ago #15812 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Obama's speach on gun control today
It's okay that we disagree, I respect your right to a different position. I think the concept of background checks are a big flashing arrow pointing at the real problem. I firmly stand on the grounds that access to weapons is not the issue, and can not be practically prevented without denying the rights of the law abiding. The real problem is much more fundamental. If you don't want someone with a felony conviction in their background to be able to posses a firearm, then don't let them out of prison in the first place. I think that illustrates fairly well where I'm going with this. Criminals are not being reformed under the existing system. That will need to change. What does not need to happen is making things worse for the rest of us, that already has a 100% failure rate so I do not see how doing more of what fails will be any improvement.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtallen83

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11 years 11 months ago #15817 by Moby
Replied by Moby on topic Obama's speach on gun control today

13fcolt wrote: I firmly stand on the grounds that access to weapons is not the issue, and can not be practically prevented without denying the rights of the law abiding.


We'll again have to disagree here. I believe methods making it more difficult for criminals to get guns does not have to interfear with law abiding citizens obtaining guns. If crimonals can buy gun without background checks via the internet in private sales now i'm confident it's being done. I had a background check for my firearm purchases and my CHL.

13fcolt wrote: The real problem is much more fundamental. If you don't want someone with a felony conviction in their background to be able to posses a firearm, then don't let them out of prison in the first place.


I think there may be a lottle emotion in this post. A guy steals a car as an 18 year old with his head up his ass. LIFE IN PRISON? A guy robs a store when life is hard. LIFE IN PRISON? I don't think you really mean that. But restict them from owning a firearm...yeah...might be a good idea.

13fcolt wrote: I think that illustrates fairly well where I'm going with this. Criminals are not being reformed under the existing system. That will need to change.


I have mixed feelings on this. I'd say much of the problem is bad parenting. A speacial military may be the answer. A crap brigade where disapline and a rebuilding of ones charactor is done. Who knows, just thinking.

13fcolt wrote: What does not need to happen is making things worse for the rest of us, that already has a 100% failure rate so I do not see how doing more of what fails will be any improvement.


I don't see how background checks will make anything worse for me or most. We all went through them already. Now to change them and make them more difficult would be something different. Stop criminals with out hindering the law abiding.

Just different views bro. I do not agree with most of Obama's executive orders/actons being medically driven. And I agree the CDC is a place of left wing antigun views. But somehow we must prevent the nut jobs from getting guns. I believe most places that sell guns already give out trigger locks.

One thing Sandy Hook did get me to do was buy a gun safe.
I'm unsure of a couple of things I may be OK with. But am adimately sure armed teachers and no gun free zones are a step in the right direction.

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11 years 11 months ago #15821 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic Obama's speach on gun control today

Moby wrote:

13fcolt wrote: I firmly stand on the grounds that access to weapons is not the issue, and can not be practically prevented without denying the rights of the law abiding.


We'll again have to disagree here. I believe methods making it more difficult for criminals to get guns does not have to interfear with law abiding citizens obtaining guns. If crimonals can buy gun without background checks via the internet in private sales now i'm confident it's being done. I had a background check for my firearm purchases and my CHL.

13fcolt wrote: The real problem is much more fundamental. If you don't want someone with a felony conviction in their background to be able to posses a firearm, then don't let them out of prison in the first place.


I think there may be a lottle emotion in this post. A guy steals a car as an 18 year old with his head up his ass. LIFE IN PRISON? A guy robs a store when life is hard. LIFE IN PRISON? I don't think you really mean that. But restict them from owning a firearm...yeah...might be a good idea.

13fcolt wrote: I think that illustrates fairly well where I'm going with this. Criminals are not being reformed under the existing system. That will need to change.


I have mixed feelings on this. I'd say much of the problem is bad parenting. A speacial military may be the answer. A crap brigade where disapline and a rebuilding of ones charactor is done. Who knows, just thinking.

13fcolt wrote: What does not need to happen is making things worse for the rest of us, that already has a 100% failure rate so I do not see how doing more of what fails will be any improvement.


I don't see how background checks will make anything worse for me or most. We all went through them already. Now to change them and make them more difficult would be something different. Stop criminals with out hindering the law abiding.

Just different views bro. I do not agree with most of Obama's executive orders/actons being medically driven. And I agree the CDC is a place of left wing antigun views. But somehow we must prevent the nut jobs from getting guns. I believe most places that sell guns already give out trigger locks.

One thing Sandy Hook did get me to do was buy a gun safe.
I'm unsure of a couple of things I may be OK with. But am adimately sure armed teachers and no gun free zones are a step in the right direction.


I'm going to side with Moby on pretty much all counts Colt but we still need to see where everything is all going.

Debating this on here is not really going to solve anything other than potentially create some hard feelings. None of us want that buddy...

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