Quest for the best....

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11 years 8 months ago #17277 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Quest for the best....

13fcolt wrote:

Dabu wrote: Thanks everyone for your advice.

I'm skeptical about putting a suppressor on a gas operated weapon. I've heard that putting a suppressor on a direct impingement gas system prevents the right amount of pressure to push the bolt carrier group all the way back and causes extraction, ejection and loading problems.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I have no experience with suppressors.


It's the other way around. A suppressor will increase back pressure and dwell time a bit and can, in some circumstances over gas an AR. Adjustable gas blocks fix this, but usually aren't needed as AR10s tend to be the most tolerant of suppressor use, and worse case scenario is a dose of 'gas face' complete with a carbon mustache. This is where the PRI gas buster comes in handy, unless you shoot lefty, or a dab of RTV around your stock charging handle to seal it off.

Well I looked that up :twothumbs: Does it also fit the AR 10???

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11 years 8 months ago #17281 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Quest for the best....
Yep, it's what I run in my sass. I don't know if it is compatible the other .308 ARs out there, but they do make AR10 gas busters.
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11 years 8 months ago #17527 by Dabu
Replied by Dabu on topic Quest for the best....
:unsure: ok, I found these cool videos and now I'm even more unsure about what to get. And I'm not even sure if they make them for 30 cal rounds....

Please watch and give me your opinion! Thanks!





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11 years 8 months ago #17533 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Quest for the best....
Neat videos. You can see the tests they did further confirms that getting both reduced flash and reduced recoil in one device doesn't really work. Reducing muzzle flash requires dispersing the gasses as quickly as possible. Reducing recoil with a muzzle device requires those gasses to be focused and directed on a thrust vector. So what works best for one is counter productive for the other. You're just going to have to decide what you want more of, flash or recoil.

Recoil reduction on an AR is in my opinion the least of concerns, and when infected with accuracy addiction as I am, the way muzzle brakes mess with barrel harmonics is a no go from the start. I also don't care for the added noise directed back & to the sides, it can be really annoying. I stick with sound suppressors as the "best" and once you go quiet, you will start saving your $ to get one for everything you shoot.

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11 years 8 months ago #17539 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Quest for the best....
Colt, Don't you think the suppressor messes with the harmonics? Seems on the face it should have more effect with the larger size and the increase in force the gas is allowed to exert on the baffles.........
I sure liked the way the Surefire flash hider worked in the video, if I got to choose one from the video's that is the one that would suit my purpose with the best coyote hunting being at night. maybe if I were to compete then one of those big clunky comps would be the ticket. I sure don't need to worry about staying on target in full auto, except in my dreams :drool:

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11 years 8 months ago #17540 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Quest for the best....
Suppressors do change the POI but it is repeatable, mostly due to adding weight to the end of the barrel, pulling it down slightly. The gasses hitting the baffle stack don't do anything because it's all a part of the suppressor. It's the same as bolting a fan to a sail boat to blow into the sails and not going anywhere because the fan and sails are on the same boat.
A brake or compensator works by redirecting gasses, basically a little rocket boost to oppose recoil, and that will be different for different loads and different conditions. Browning made the BOSS system to cope with that knowing not everyone hunts with the same load in the same conditions. There is also no way for a mass produced brake to come out of the box tuned to the barrel, which no two are exactly alike. I wish zfk were around, he could tell it better than me that a proper brake has to be tuned to a rifle for a specific load.

All of this is trivial unless you are trying to get the best groups at longer ranges and all that insane what not. As you can see in the videos, for sending rounds down range at a torso sized target a muzzle brake makes little difference at all. In my experience, a great shooting rifle can go to crap with one of these things, but my idea of going to crap was the groups opened up a whopping 2 moa.
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11 years 8 months ago #17541 by Dabu
Replied by Dabu on topic Quest for the best....
Thank you guys! My next question is: can a suppressor reduce muzzle climb and recoil? If it can then I'm pretty sure I'm going to pick one of the muzzle breaks that can a suppressor and easily attach to it.

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11 years 8 months ago #17542 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Quest for the best....
As stated, you cannot have it both ways, its a compromise at best or you lean more toward one or the other.

Now comes the hard part where you have to apply your RULE SET and make the call.

Flash suppression works best at night, its minimal in daylight, its almost takes place in an instant and unless you are being viewed no one will see it anyhow.

Noise suppression...depends upon how sensitive you are to noise...

Muzzle control. Unless you are shooting high cyclic rates is it rally that big of a deal to you?

IMO and what I like is a top side 180 degree venting. Number 1 is it reduces the visible signature and for dust control. Dust unlike the flash, has a lot of latency, flash is just that gone in a flash but the dust signature will not only hang around, but the more you shoot the more pronounced it becomes.

If you are a sniper you certainly want dust control and flash is a big thing because the OPFOR is visually scanning the AO both day and night. Muzzle control is not that high on the list as their cyclic rate is not high.

Consider the impacting factors and pick the one that best meets your objectives...

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11 years 8 months ago - 11 years 8 months ago #17550 by Dabu
Replied by Dabu on topic Quest for the best....
I'm trying to make the best battle rifle. So I've picked muzzle control over flash suppression. Now I'm researching if suppressors help with muzzle control.

I really enjoy doing hammer pairs and controlled pairs at longer than normal ranges. I honestly think it takes more skill than long distance shooting. So I really won't be shooting at high cyclic rates, just two at a time pretty quick. With the standard birdcage A2 (whatever you call it) muzzle device I have on my rifle now, it's hard to even get the second shot of a hammer pair 10moa from the first.

I know you guys are going to say something like, :angry: "If you're shooting a .308 why do you need to hit twice?"

And like something my old karate teacher used to say, :pray: "Doing something with perfect form once is really good, but doing something multiple times with perfect form is even better."

So if a muzzle brake could improve the muzzle control, and I could add a corresponding suppressor to the rifle, it'd be one cool battle rifle.

But if the improvements from muzzle brake go away if you add the corresponding suppressors, I'll just stick to the best muzzle brake.
Last edit: 11 years 8 months ago by Dabu. Reason: typo

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11 years 8 months ago #17552 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Quest for the best....
You are on your way, I would also do the 180 up openings to reduce dust..

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