Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?

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12 years 1 week ago #14362 by Harry Moto
Replied by Harry Moto on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
Your AR10A4XX IS an AR10B. An AR10A4XX is an AR10B, if you want an AR10A you have to order an AR10A A10A4XX. Makes perfect sense?

I found this out when my Magpul magazines that I had already purchased didn't fit the rifle at the gun store. My rifle came from Buds Guns, so I figured they made the mistake, they'll have to take it back. Then I did some serious research on the Armalite site, and found the 'fine print'. If you look long enough you'll find the information above on their site, but I don't remember where at this point. Returning the weapon would be sticking it to my local shop and Buds, (if I even COULD return it) so I accepted the thing. Now I have the most expensive weapon in my collection, and it's a fine rifle indeed, but it's NOT WHAT I WANT!!!!

Now before we go into all the plus and minus discussions regarding different models of rifle, let me just say that the AR10B is a fine rifle. Steel magazines are no doubt very nice and have certain advantages. I've been down all those roads, checked out the scenery, and made the very personal decision that I want an AR10A with Magpul magazines. If you don't like my decision, that's your deal, you won't have my rifle in your safe. If I want a red pickup truck and I order a 'Pickup Truck, Red, one each' I don't expect to get a yellow one. Telling me later that 'Red' refers to the engine paint color isn't going to make me a happy camper. My opinion of Armalite right now is that my butt hurts. :censored:

What really sux it that I put the thing on a credit card, an emergency purchase due to the result of the last presidential election. My wife is pissed, but I was weathering the storm, and quietly excited; how long have I wanted to do this? Then I get the rifle and the magazines don't go in the magwell... I'm seriously disappointed beyond words.

Blah, blah, blah... I've got about 150 rounds through it, the thing runs fine. I had to file some burrs off the feed ramp so I don't get dual scratches on each case, otherwise it's been plug and play. The two 5.56 AR-15's I built from parts didn't need that, but I expect it's a 7.62mm thing. The rifle works, I've got a set of SS 20 round M-14 magazines on the way, and I'm getting over shaking my head and thinking "B@54@70s!" every time I pick up a heavy steel magazine.

The point to my whole diatribe is to request a sticky, a notice, some way to flag Armalite's "interesting" model number system for future buyers. I'd like it if nobody ELSE gets that sick, sinking feeling in the pit of the stomach on realizing that you're stuck with the WRONG D*MN!D RIFLE. Armalite hasn't favored me with a reply to my email; maybe we can warn people here, instead?

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12 years 1 week ago #14363 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
I'm sincerely sorry you did not get what you wanted Harry but, (and forgive my bluntness here) if you had ordered a Red pickup but still drove the yellow one off the lot, you would have been in pretty much the same situation. These are not cheap wrenches from the local hardware store and when spending this kind of money on these types of products, it is not a "buyer beware" market, it is a "buyer be informed" market where it is up to each of us to make certain it is what we want before we take it away or else stop right there and throw up a flag.

I literally had 2 phone conversations and exchanged several emails with Armalite before making my purchase and all I wanted was the stock AR10A2BF, just to make certain, when my dealer ordered the weapon, there were absolutely no mix-ups. This was a major purchase for me and my family and I wanted NO problems during the process. To make things worse, my dealer had never dealt in these types of weapons before or with Armalite and I needed to make certain of the correct nomenclature and all of the details before I let him order it because, like you, once he got it, if it was wrong, I would have felt like a mook telling him it was wrong and it was HIS problem to fix it.

When you were at the dealer picking it up, had you done your research and gotten the exact nomenclature of the weapon you wanted and made certain THEY were ordering the right one as well, and then found that was not the one, you should never have accepted it. That is where the breakdown and the complaints truly lie Sir. I'm sorry that you are not happy with the purchase but these kinds of things happen all the time with all kinds of purchases and normally, once you have accepted possession of something, you "imply" that it IS acceptable and the only chance you had to stop and/or reverse the situation would have been to stop right there, say it was the wrong one, and then have your dealer work with Armalite to correct the issue. Whether you were boning your dealer or not.

I know that once I make a purchase and walk away, unless I'm at stinking Wally world or someplace, that is pretty much a final deal and making corrections is pretty much up to me - if it can be done at all.

Warning that Armalite's ordering data is messed up is not really what we do here but they ARE members of the site and you may be able to have a dialogue with them if you address them respectfully within the forum or via PM.

There are literally several thousand members on this site and I do not believe I have ever seen a thread about this exact issue so it does not seem like a "common thing" and unless there is a pattern to be shown, I see no reason to go warning people of it.

I truly am sorry you did not get what you wanted and I understand it because it has happened to us all at one time or another on various things but sometimes, when we are the most angry and frustrated, it is because we MAY be kicking the wrong people for our own mistakes or simple lack of triple checking everything before taking the leap and we just need to vent.

Respectfully submitted Harry
Sharkey

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12 years 1 week ago #14364 by sansone
Replied by sansone on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
I am sorry to hear you are not happy, why don't you buy magazines that fit the rifle and enjoy yourself. Return the magazines that don't fit, and be happy with the rifle. Magazine troubles are very common and certainly there ARE mags that will function flawlessly, get some, and enjoy that beautiful machine

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12 years 1 week ago #14365 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
At the current demand level I would be happy to just have an AR10. My original choice was a Rock River LAR-8. When I found 140 days after ordering that it would be another 60 days! I looked at the AR10 at theLGS and decided to go that route. Mine is the B model with the gen II mags, and made me glad I didn't go the LAR-8 route with FN-FAL mags. It is perfect just the way it is, and Polymer mags I feel are overrated.

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12 years 1 week ago #14366 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
OK, lots of folks do not realize that until recently all current AR10s are "B" models. Seems moot, given that no one with an original would dare taint it's value with new parts, but they are out there and the differences from the original AR10, magazine included, required that the distinction be made. Now that Armalite has started producing AR10s that take original pattern magazines, that product line is designated with an "A".

Where I'm seeing the confusion is that "A4" refers to a configuration, not a product line. Not any different from A1,A2,A3, or A5. An AR15,AR10,DPMS,LWRC, etc and so on, can be an "A4" regardless of caliber or magazine used. The "A4" configuration comes from the M16A4, Fourth generation, detachable carry handle and railed handguard. In the civy market "A4" covers pretty much the detachable carry handle alone. Even when buying just a stripped, flat top upper, it can be referred to as "A4", other accessories being optional.

Granted, Armalite does enjoy a scrabble session when coming up with their stuff. Pretty much everything after AR10 denotes different features from the trigger group installed, the barrel length and type, and even the color of the furniture. I guess if it's not what you want, and I do believe you should get what you want, there is always selling it or trading it off for the version you do want. Plenty of us "B" groupies out there already invested in the Gen2 mags.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Harry Moto

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12 years 6 days ago #14393 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?

If you look long enough you'll find the information above on their site, but I don't remember where at this point. Returning the weapon would be sticking it to my local shop and Buds, (if I even COULD return it) so I accepted the thing. Now I have the most expensive weapon in my collection, and it's a fine rifle indeed, but it's NOT WHAT I WANT!!!!


I'm at a loss as to how Armalite's order policy makes this mistake their fault?
Did you ask your LGS about taking it back and getting the right gun? I doubt there are many LGS's that see any AR-10 on the rack as being "stuck".
I started out disappointed with a cosmetic issue on my AR-10. I emailed and it got lost in the shuffle. That is when I found this forum, looking to see if this was a common issue. Everything I read said it wasn't. Within a few hours of posting I was encouraged to call them. The conversation left me a satisfied customer. :) Then I went and actually shot the rifle, I've been an Armalite junkie ever since! :drool:

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12 years 6 days ago #14398 by Harry Moto
Replied by Harry Moto on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
Thanks for the repies, guys, I appreciate y'alls concerns and advice. Blunt is cool, blunt is good with me. I re-read my original post, and see where I wandered off the track here and there. Yes, I'm mad as H E double hockey sticks at Armalite. No, it's not their fault, it's my fault. Yes, it will happen again to somebody else. I believe that AR10T.com could help prevent this from happening to someone else. I believe that Armalite could prevent it as well; their model number system is complicated, I think they should make more of an effort to help people understand it.

The situation of being 'stuck' with the 10B is something I brought upon myself. Lord knows these days everyone just 'returns' anything and everything; I don't feel like that's the right thing to do. I'm blessed enough that I can just get the proper magazines and change my plans regarding my bolt rifle conversion, it'll fit whatever my AR-10 fits.

I did a good bit of research prior to ordering the AR10, primarily due to the listing at Buds Guns being screwed up. After looking up tons of stuff I exchanged emails with the guys at Buds. I figured that they wouldn't be Armalite experts, so I got what I thought was the correct part number and verified that the rifle (listed as both a 20" AND a 16" weapon) was indeed an AR10A4BF. Now in hindsight I guess I should have done MORE research, but it seemed like I had a line on things.

13fColt hit it on the head: It's the A4 and AR10 thing. I've seen confusion on other forums about this very thing. Now I know the correct answer, and post it when I can.

Y'know, I looked at "Armalite Key Characteristics" breifly, didn't realize it was the decoder ring for the part numbers. I saw barrel lenght, weight, stuff like that. And I thought 'I know, I know, they're essentially the same except for the magazine' and went elsewhere to look for the model number I wanted. LOL

Regarding the frequency of occurance: The OP (whose thread, it seems, I have hijacked. Sorry!! :blush: ) did precisely the same thing I did. Fortunately he wasn't dead set on a 10A, and you guys were quick to point out the good parts of the 10B so it all turned out fine. NOT because he got what he wanted, NOT because it's easy to understand Armalite's model number/model number system, but because he was cool with either model and hadn't previously invested in mags for what he THOUGHT he was getting.

jtallen83, Armalites order policy has got nothing to do with it. Quality of the weapon has got nothing to do with it. Everybody did a good job, but an error got into the system at least twice (me and the OP). It doesn't help anybody when that happens, I loose, Armalite looses. Communication, effective communication, is often the correct answer.

Finally, while I appreciate the condolences from many of you, I'm not here to bleed on anybody or look for sympathy. I'm beating this (apparently nearly dead) horse so that nobody ELSE gets a big suprise when they inspect their new Armalite. So Armalite doesn't have any more unhappy customers, any extra returns, and so that Armalite's communication to it's customers about what they will be getting is effective. I've pretty well done my thing at this point, if nobody else cares I don't expect to make much happen.

My posts are too long, I understand when guys don't read the whole thing. I put a LOT of effort into communitating clearly, but it's just not my gift. My apologies to Glockman75 (whose thread I hijacked, primarily to show it wasn't a one time deal) and to anyone who's feathers I ruffled.

It's all good. Remember, shooting is fun! (from Box-o-truth)
Lurk mode = ON :wave:

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12 years 6 days ago #14400 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
OK I concede that this is the SECOND post of this nature...lol When I was reading forward a bit, and after reading your post, I incorrectly mistook that you WERE the OP.

I stand corrected on that one Harry but I'm glad you are doing better and also glad to see you posting.

Long winded or not, open discussions on these things can only benefit all of us and thanks.

Oh, and FYI - I read every word... :)

Sharkey

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12 years 6 days ago #14401 by Harry Moto
Replied by Harry Moto on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
"Oh, and FYI - I read every word...

Sharkey "

Of course you do: that's one reason you are the 'Most interesting man in the world'!! :cowboy: :rotfl:

I WAS going to Lurk mode, but couldn't resist a little come-back on that one. LOL Some do, some don't. If somebody only reads some of them all the way, mine are the skip-over-stuff posts. And I'm cool with that. ;) Friendly place, AR10T, lot's of places would have gone totally flame-fest at this point. Agree or disagree, I like forums where the discussion proceeds with dignity and respect. And some hilarity doesn't hurt... :thumbs: See y'all later!

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12 years 6 days ago #14402 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Is my new AR10A4 "B" a BIG mistake?
I'm all about the hilarity.
But you gotta watch out for sharkey though, he takes "legend in his own mind" to a whole nuther level. I hear when he talks to himself, he makes his other personalities hold up lighters likes it's some kind of power ballad.

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