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9 years 7 months ago #44791 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Pulled the trigger
Anyone have any experience with these .308 Bullpups and their accuracy?

The AWC G2 is a bullpup sniper rifle configuration produced in the early 1990s by AWC Systems Technology. USA


The Stealth Recon Scout (SRS) is bolt-action sniper rifle developed by the American firearm manufacturer Desert Tactical Arms. USA


The Kel-Tec RFB (Rifle, Forward-ejection, Bullpup) USA


M89SR sniper rifle is a gas operated semi-automatic sniper rifle, produced by Technical Consultants International (TCI), an Israeli

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bullpup_firearms

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9 years 7 months ago #44795 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Pulled the trigger

JustMe wrote: Anyone have any experience with these .308 Bullpups and their accuracy?

The AWC G2 is a bullpup sniper rifle configuration produced in the early 1990s by AWC Systems Technology. USA


The Stealth Recon Scout (SRS) is bolt-action sniper rifle developed by the American firearm manufacturer Desert Tactical Arms. USA


The Kel-Tec RFB (Rifle, Forward-ejection, Bullpup) USA


M89SR sniper rifle is a gas operated semi-automatic sniper rifle, produced by Technical Consultants International (TCI), an Israeli

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bullpup_firearms

I certainly don't and like most I just overlooked them. When talk about them what comes out is ergonomics, it don't fit, difficult to use and other things like lack of accuracy and they look funny.

The ergo on the AR platform is good and easy to use, most of all its quick to get proficient...KEY for a Infantry soldier. Here is where the Tavor shines. IWI is the company that was created to produce arms for the IDF. The result is the soldier was brought into the game at the git-go. The ergo of the Tavor is there. From the first time I picked it up it felt right.

As for lack of accuracy, its a battle gun and its effective, no need to say more. Want more accuracy then buy a sniper rifle.

Would not say it looks funny, looks different, looks good.

Not sure how it would work in a .308 config. .308 packs a LOT of power and takes a stout gun frame to handle it properly...

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9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago #44797 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Pulled the trigger

OleCowboy wrote:

JustMe wrote: As for lack of accuracy, its a battle gun and its effective, no need to say more. Want more accuracy then buy a sniper rifle.



These are all supposedly sniper rifles and the last one was developed by the Israelis like your Tavor, so maybe it's more ergonomic like you said the Tavor was. Thought that since you said you handled a bunch of these bullpups, maybe you handled one of these sniper rifles.

Cowboy, are you still in the breaking down doors and spraying lead occupation?

Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by JustMe.

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9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago #44798 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Pulled the trigger

JustMe wrote:

OleCowboy wrote:

JustMe wrote: As for lack of accuracy, its a battle gun and its effective, no need to say more. Want more accuracy then buy a sniper rifle.



These are all supposedly sniper rifles and the last one was developed by the Israelis like your Tavor, so maybe it's more ergonomic like you said the Tavor was. Thought that since you said you handled a bunch of these bullpups, maybe you handled one of these sniper rifles.

Cowboy, are you still in the breaking down doors and spraying lead occupation?


No, I like most passed on the BP config. Its been around since the 60's and never caught on.

I retired in '94

This was the line up when I was at IWI for a day of shooting:

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Here is a rare pic: This is the owner of IWI (Samy Katsav) and the owner of Beretta (Ugo Beretta) on the IWI range.

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Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by OleCowboy.

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9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago #44800 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Pulled the trigger
Now that is awesome. How in the world did you get invited to something like that?

You passed on the BP? I thought you said you pulled the trigger which meant to me that you bought one. I guess you literally meant you just shot one.
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by JustMe.

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9 years 7 months ago #44802 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Pulled the trigger

JustMe wrote: Now that is awesome. How in the world did you get invited to something like that?

You passed on the BP? I thought you said you pulled the trigger which meant to me that you bought one. I guess you literally meant you just shot one.

What I meant was I passed on the BP's over the many years they have been around like everyone else. It was not till I went to IWI last year and got some playtime that I gave it consideration.

My wife is very involved in the NRA, she is friends with Susan LaPierre and many others. FYI women play a key role in the NRA, my wife is on the Women's Leadership forum and def runs in the right circles. We traveled over to Israel with NRA past President David Keen (he is in the pic to the right of Samy Katsav) and Joe Gregory, Chairman of the Ring of Freedom of which I am a member and we also have Ambassador John Bolton along with us. There was less than 20 of us that spent 2 weeks over there on what was the most incredible trip of my life. We were guarded by Navy SEALS and IDF SF. The SEALS were plainclothes and the IDF SF folks were in full battle rattle, armed and showing.

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9 years 7 months ago #44808 by Charlie
Replied by Charlie on topic Pulled the trigger

JustMe wrote: I've seen comments that the Bullpups are not as accurate as the AR-15 or AR-10.


Most of the complaints I've seen blame lack of accuracy on the crappy triggers. Some of this comes from the associated linkage, but in the case of the AUG it's something else:

The original AUG was an infantry rifle with a clever select-fire mechanism: Pull the trigger partly to the rear for a single shot. Squeeze it all the way to the rear and the gun fires a fully-automatic burst. For this feature to be reliable in the field the AUG was designed with a long and heavy trigger to avoid unintentional full-auto discharges. Perhaps compounding this design decision is the fact that militaries have not historically made “trigger feel” a high priority for infantry rifles; if anything a heavy trigger is considered a safety feature that reduces the possibility of unintentional discharges.

Steyr did not consider it worthwhile to create a smoother or lighter trigger for their semi-automatic-only trigger packs.

MSAR, which specifically built its rifle for the U.S. civilian market, doesn’t have a good excuse for copying the heavy AUG trigger spring.


See emptormaven.com/2011/03/aug-and-msar-trigger-improvements/ for original article.

I just now found out that Geissele makes a replacement trigger pack for the Tavor!

geissele.com/super-sabra-trigger-tavor.html

Granted the stock AUG trigger is the pits, but here's what my boy shot with our bone stock AUG A3 NATO.

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I replaced the stock AUG sear with a 2020 Precision TSM and that improved the trigger quite a bit. I'm going to trot out to the range Saturday and see if I can improve the group.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Libertarian623

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9 years 7 months ago - 9 years 7 months ago #44822 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Pulled the trigger
That's a nice group for kneeling at 100 yds. I assume those are 1 inch squares?

I wonder what it will do off bags and using tuned reloads?
Last edit: 9 years 7 months ago by JustMe.

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9 years 7 months ago #44824 by Charlie
Replied by Charlie on topic Pulled the trigger
They are 1 inch squares. I see 4 in the bull, 8 in the white, and two fliers at +1 left and - 1.25 left. Not too shabby for a rifle that everybody dings as inaccurate.

The kid is a natural, I've been training him since he was 8 years old. He isn't clued in to situational awareness and threat management quite yet, but is single minded when it comes to firearms handling.

The stock AUG trigger pack sucks big time (but a trained person _*CAN*_ shoot that group). The 2020 Precision TSM seems to have cleaned the trigger issues up quite a bit, and I'm anxious to put that to the test. 2020 also offers a complete steel replacement trigger module for the AUG based on the AR-15 trigger module that's supposed to be the cat's meow, and I am now one year into the estimated 2 year wait to get one. :-|

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9 years 7 months ago #44831 by JustMe
Replied by JustMe on topic Pulled the trigger
Take lots of pics of you shooting so we can see the fit, etc. Looking forward to seeing how accurate it is with the new trigger and off bags and your ergonomics range report. I've been thinking about purchasing a .308 BP for many years and still am not confident enough in a choice to purchase one.

Good shooting, Jer

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