The post Iraqi/Afghan Army

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10 years 5 months ago #40792 by Siscowet
The post Iraqi/Afghan Army was created by Siscowet
An interesting editorial outlining the challenges to a peacetime army.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-army...4_story.html?hpid=z3
The following user(s) said Thank You: MrMarty51, jtallen83, NightForce

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10 years 5 months ago #40802 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The post Iraqi/Afghan Army
As someone who came into the Army of the 60's, saw the 70's, then 80's and finally the 90's I saw a lot of changes and what it boils down to is this:

War time Armies are based upon a results driven model. Its not the process its the results. As the Army melds into a peace time Army its becomes process driven, results are less and less important, it becomes not what you did, but how you did it. Add to that the Army slows down to a very slow OpTempo (pace) and missions become very wide in process. You begin to staff actions wider and wider, it takes longer and longer and if every 'i' is not dotted exactly right and ever 't' crossed left to right then go back and do it over. All the while you are driving to you objective and obtaining results.

Just look at the current federal govt and its administration. PROCESS. Governments work off of process and the longer they are around the bigger they get the more process (regulations). Regulations define process, not results.

The coming new Army will most likely be a repeat of the Army of the post Vietnam 70's. I can assure you it was not a good time. It was Jimmy Carters Army and it like him was a disaster.

From the link:

"After Vietnam, then-Col. Wayne Downing, who later commanded all U.S. Special Operations forces, challenged his Rangers to avoid becoming “milicrats” — bureaucrats in khaki focused on process and rules at the expense of bold thinking and battlefield results. Fortunately, senior Army leaders of that era underwrote a decentralized culture. They gave cover to their young officers to make tough choices and backed them up."

I worked for him, in fact I was on his Staff and saw him daily. One of the very best of the best Officers and Generals I worked for in my career. Sadly he passed away several years ago in an almost freak occurrence. He was being interviewed for an article and the next day he was not feeling good, shortly after he did of Meningitis. IMO no one had more impact on Special Operations that he did, he truly was the father of SO that we have today.

And YES, General Downing was definitely results focused.

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10 years 5 months ago #40803 by Ranchwagon
Replied by Ranchwagon on topic The post Iraqi/Afghan Army
My biggest fear of the peacetime military is that it will be forced to become a politically sensitive organization that's mission will be to appease whatever politician in charge happens to be.

Yes I believe the military has to have some accountability but only to the context it must be prepared to fight the next one, not worry about someone's feelings or other preposterous notion.

Maybe that is what the writer is saying, indirectly.

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10 years 5 months ago #40804 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The post Iraqi/Afghan Army

Ranchwagon wrote: My biggest fear of the peacetime military is that it will be forced to become a politically sensitive organization that's mission will be to appease whatever politician in charge happens to be.

Yes I believe the military has to have some accountability but only to the context it must be prepared to fight the next one, not worry about someone's feelings or other preposterous notion.

Maybe that is what the writer is saying, indirectly.

Got some really bad news for you, your fear is REALITY. That is ALL peace time Armies, was after WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and will be after we pull out of the ME.

But wait, there is hope. We have never gone but a few years (since WWII) without being involved in a war, don't expect that to change...

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10 years 5 months ago #40806 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic The post Iraqi/Afghan Army
Let's hope some leaders emerge cut from the cloth of Colonel Downing.

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10 years 5 months ago #40808 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The post Iraqi/Afghan Army

Siscowet wrote: Let's hope some leaders emerge cut from the cloth of Colonel Downing.

It is my guess they are becoming rare and rarer.

Would Patton make it in todays Army, not hardly, he would have been lucky to get promoted past Captain. Schwarzkopf, he too is gone, Potter (founder Delta Force), long since retired and all but out of the loop anymore I knew these leaders, served under these leaders (Patton's son, George Patton) and would have followed them anywhere, but they are all gone.

FYI: The administration reflects the military leaders and after 8 years of Obama, who has purged the ranks of real leaders, we are left with General Sycophants...

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10 years 5 months ago #40908 by Ranchwagon
Replied by Ranchwagon on topic The post Iraqi/Afghan Army
What I also find disturbing is there are a number of veterans out there that are getting canned short of the minimum 20 years retirement cut off. I know they did it after Nam but it still don't make it right. Seems like there is a better solution out there. It's not like there are a lot of job openings for a seasoned 10b that used up 18 of his best years defending the country.

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10 years 5 months ago #40911 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic The post Iraqi/Afghan Army

Ranchwagon wrote: What I also find disturbing is there are a number of veterans out there that are getting canned short of the minimum 20 years retirement cut off. I know they did it after Nam but it still don't make it right. Seems like there is a better solution out there. It's not like there are a lot of job openings for a seasoned 10b that used up 18 of his best years defending the country.

Very common, rarely does it make the news but they Army did something STUPID...AGAIN, the sent notices to guys serving in a COMBAT ZONE, CRAZY just plain crazy.

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