2x on Young'uns & BCG Staking just say NO!

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10 years 10 months ago - 10 years 10 months ago #34682 by OleCowboy
Here are 2 articles on Young manuf and a review of their bolt carrier group.

Follow the links for the pics


Young Manufacturing Factory Tour

During a recent trip to the Pheonix area, I was fortunate to get a personal plant tour of Young Manufacturing by Dan Young himself. I was stunned to learn just how much work goes into making the carrier and complete bolt carrier group (BCG) for an AR-15, but first let’s look at what this critical part does in the AR-15.

For every round fired, the BCG is generally beaten like a red-headed step child. (My apologies to all red-headed step children. It must have been a rough upbringing.) Pull the trigger, and the BCG goes to work. The firing pin is whacked by the hammer with thumb crushing force (don’t ask how I know), the tiny firing pin tip hits the primer detonating the round, a bullet zips down the barrel, and then things really heat up for the BCG. The gas block and tube reroute some hot gas back to the BCG gas key. The red hot, rerouted gas delivers a 100-125 psi blast behind the three bolt rings, which push the bolt forward in a camming effect about .25” and turns the bolt face clockwise to unlock the bolt from the barrel. The remaining gas pressure slams the BCG rearward from its previous motionless state, extracting and removing the empty case. The BCG continues rearward until the buffer and spring delivers a brief delay before violently reversing direction and slamming the BCG right back into battery at about 6.88 ft/sec (or around 5 MPH), all while still managing to pick up one (and only one) more round in the process. It does this entire roughly 6” round trip in around .092 seconds.


This is a pretty impressive feat, and it’s elegant when it works perfectly. However, poor materials, design, and workmanship can make any or all of the BCG’s fourteen components vulnerable. It is without question the most difficult design challenge of the entire AR, performing the most complex mechanics, all while being both durable and graceful enough to eject and grab the next round in the process. If any of the fourteen bolt carrier group components fail or are out of spec, then the gun will not fire, not cycle, not feed another round, or it will jam or cause some other more catastrophic issue. It is the most complex part on the rifle, and it affects every critical function of the rifle from accuracy to reliability.

Ask a hundred AR owners who they think makes the best BCGs, and most will name a bunch of manufactures whose name appears on the side of rifles. The reality is that the industry rarely works that way. There are only a few true AR component manufactures making AR parts, and fewer who make the BCG. Young Manufacturing (YM) is one of the preeminent BCG manufacturers and is considered the best in the business. Here’s why.

Many manufacturers just assemble parts made elsewhere. It is refreshing to see real manufacturing where raw steel goes in one end of a plant and finished product comes out the other. To assure the highest quality, YM starts by sourcing 100% USA virgin steel rods instead of the less expensive but inferior imported “re-melt” steels. YM then machines components in its Pheonix USA plant on state-of-the-art CNC machines. Starting with the highest grade materials and using top end machining technology with a focus on each detail, Young Manufacturing delivers the best BCG in the business.


Once the rods are cut down to roughly a carrier size, they are profiled, then turned and milled to a more recognizable carrier shape. Final machining delivers a carrier that is ready for final inspection and hand polishing. In fact one facet of production is stunning: YM actually has two guys hand inspecting and hand polishing each and every edge and radius on the carrier under giant magnifying glasses. Nearly every other manufacturer just tumbles the carriers to polish edges, but YM believes the only way to assure perfect quality is by hand inspection.

As of late 2013, YM manufactures all bolts in house with carpenter steel, which is considered the best steel available for AR-15 bolts. YM has exclusively used either FN or Barnes Precision bolts, but during the great AR-15 parts shortage of 2012-2013, Dan decided it was time to begin manufacturing the bolts and gas keys in-house. So at this point, YM manufactures 100% of the bolt carrier group in house.


This picky material sourcing and production delivers BCGs that consistently surpass US mil-spec, and this inclues YM’s patented National Match AR-15 bolt carrier and superlight National Match carrier, which are prefered by those that like to shoot tiny little groups. Although their website does not reflect their complete product line, the company also produces a broad array of phosphate and chrome AR-15 and AR-10/308 bolt carriers, flash hiders, rail systems, bolt assembly tools, and many other AR related products.


To Stake or Not to Stake
There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Many an “expert” (including me) has advocated or indicated a preference of having the gas key staked. Young Manufactuering’s opinion is that they will not stake keys, nor have they since 1991, and this has never been even a minor issue from customers.

Per YM, the US mil-spec assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked and sealed with Permatex gasket sealer. Contrary to some popular opinions, staking does not “seal” the gas key, and in reality only has one function: to keep the screws from backing out. In addition, staking can cause problems. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds, you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. Although required, to YM’s knowledge, this is a process no one other than YM does.

To complete Permatex sealing and prevent the screw from backing out, they first clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. They then clean the oil from the screw threads, apply a light coating of Permatex high strength threadlocker gel to the bottom of the key, and allow the whole thing to cure for 60 minutes. Next, they coat the screw threads with the same gel and install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds.

Even the really nerdy AR builder rarely, if ever, assemble a carrier key with Permatex because of this precise and somewhat delicate procedure of potentially gluing shut the vent holes. In fact, I know of no one who has even done it. It is a task left to professionals such as YM, and if the top BCG manufacturer says staking is unnecessary and potentially decreases reliability, I for one believe them.


- See more at: www.alloutdoor.com/2014/02/10/young-manu...sthash.PHM51Olv.dpuf







Young Manufacturing Match M16 AR15 Bolt Review

For every round fired, the BCG (Bolt Carrier Group) is generally beat like a red-headed step child. Pull the trigger and the BCG goes to work. The firing pin is whacked by the hammer with thumb crushing force (don’t ask how I know), the tiny firing pin tip hits the primer detonating the round, a bullet zips down the barrel and then things really heat up for the BCG.

Once fiery gas builds up in the barrel, the gas block and tube reroute some hot gas back to the BCG gas key. The red hot rerouted gas delivers a 100-125 psi blast behind the three bolt rings which push the bolt forward in a cam-ing effect about .25” forward and turns the bolt face clockwise to unlock the bolt from the barrel. The remaining gas pressure slams the BCG rearward from its previous motionless state, extracting and removing the empty case. The BCG continues rearward until the buffer and spring deliver a brief delay before violently reversing the rearward direction and slamming the BCG right back into battery at about 6.88 ft/sec or around 5MPH all while still managing to pick up one and only one more round in the process. It does this entire roughly 6” round trip in around .092 seconds.


This is a pretty impressive feat and elegant when working perfectly, however poor materials, design, and workmanship can make any or all of the fourteen components vulnerable. It is without a question the most difficult design challenge of an entire AR, performing the most complex mechanics, all while being both durable and graceful enough to eject and grab the next round in the process.



If any of the fourteen Bolt Carrier Group components fail or be out of spec, then the gun will not fire, not cycle, not feed another round, jam, or cause some other more catastrophic issue. It is the most complex part on the rifle affecting every critical function of the rifle from accuracy to reliability.

Ask a hundred AR owners who makes the best BCGs (Bolt Carrier Groups) and most will name a bunch of manufactures whose name appears on the side of rifles. The reality is that the industry rarely works that way. There are only a few true AR component manufactures making AR parts and fewer who made the highest stressed and most functionally critical component sets in any rifle; the BCG. Young Manufacturing - YM is one of the preeminent BCG manufacturers and considered the best in the business.


Most of you probably do not know the name Young Manufacturing however you probably do know their products and chances are high you already own a YM BCG if you own a higher quality AR. Les Baer and Ruger are among a few premium AR manufacturer names that use Young Manufacturing’s BCGs (bolt and bolt carrier groups) however YM has a very long list of customer names.

Manufacturing high quality BCGs is not simple, easy or inexpensive and that has lead to many AR companies using imported BCG parts to hit low starter rifle price points back in the initial AR craze of the late 1980s. In fact, this is one reason Dan & Debbie Young founded the company in 1991. Even back then, the surge of AR15 purchases was driving a huge influx of sub-standard, foreign-made parts into the market. Obviously today we still unfortunately seeing this situation more than ever.

Young Manufacturing, Inc. has been at the forefront in high quality Aerospace and Firearms Parts manufacturing with clients such as Talley Defense Systems, Allied Signal Aerospace, Honeywell and of course DoD customers such as the Naval Surface Warfare center. In early 2000, Dan and Debbie decided to move away from the Aerospace business and focus solely on the exploding firearms related production growth.

www.majorpandemic.com/2012/09/young-manu...h-m16-ar15-bolt.html
Last edit: 10 years 10 months ago by OleCowboy.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtallen83

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10 years 10 months ago #34690 by jtallen83
Interesting, I'm looking forward to the flip side of this, hard to believe a procedure that has been so highly recommended for years isn't needed. Wonder if this will be the good kind of "change" or just the PR type of "change". :unsure:

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10 years 10 months ago #34696 by OleCowboy

jtallen83 wrote: Interesting, I'm looking forward to the flip side of this, hard to believe a procedure that has been so highly recommended for years isn't needed. Wonder if this will be the good kind of "change" or just the PR type of "change". :unsure:

I suspect Akai will weigh on this also. But if and when bolts are PROPERLY installed and torqued there should no reason to stake, with that I agree in principal.

But then there are external factors that com into play along with the proverbial upside - downside analysis. IF it fails what is my downside? Well you and I know well that this catastrophic failure in the heat of battle is not a good thing...ask me how I know!!! :mad: :censored:

They say they have been doing it for years (no stake) and nary a failure...

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10 years 10 months ago #34698 by jtallen83
I had always understood it was a back-up plan to stop the screws from coming loose, not a back-up for the original torque spec not being followed. I think both should be correct on such a critical element of the firearm. :twocents: The argument against staking seems weak.......

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10 years 10 months ago #34709 by OleCowboy

jtallen83 wrote: I had always understood it was a back-up plan to stop the screws from coming loose, not a back-up for the original torque spec not being followed. I think both should be correct on such a critical element of the firearm. :twocents: The argument against staking seems weak.......

What is interesting is that Young Manuf is about the biggest BCG boy in town, chances are you have one in your weapon.

I don't know if you followed the link in the second article, but if not you should and look at the pics and compare their BCG with Mil Spec...WOW even I am impressed in the superior quality. Also look at the pic of their national match bolt and there lightweight ones, WOW these guys got it going on...

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10 years 10 months ago #34721 by jtallen83
I must not have one, all mine are staked.

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10 years 10 months ago #34725 by OleCowboy
I only think they do not stake their national match line, all their mil spec stuff is staked

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