How to legally own a suppressor

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13 years 7 months ago - 13 years 7 months ago #7437 by txlongshotb4
I love guns...I own a lot of them. I love suppressors...I own a lot of them, too.

Of all of my guns, I think perhaps my AR-10 is my favorite. I have it kitted out with a Gemtech HVT-QD suppressor. That rifle is just about as tricked out as I can get it.
Despite all of the bells and whistles, it usually comes down to one topic when people ask me about my guns...the cans.
The questions and/or statements are usually the same. "I thought those were illegal." or, "How on Earth did you get to have that?" and inevitably, "How can I get one of those?"

So, since it is a common question, I feel like spreading the wealth, and helping my fellow shooters understand how all of this works. I'll try to defuse some of the rumors, and tell you guys just how easy it really is to own a suppressor...legally.

First off, a little terminology...Suppressors fall into a category recognized as "NFA" weapons. NFA is the acronym for National Firearms Act, which is in reference to the National Firearms Act of 1934. To understand how and why this affects you, I'll give a bit of a history lesson here...

The purpose of the NFA was to regulate what were considered "gangster weapons" such as machine guns and hand grenades. Then U.S. Attorney General Homer S. Cummings recognized that firearms could not be banned outright under the Second Amendment, so he proposed restrictive regulation in the form of an expensive tax and Federal registration.

This was not your anti-gunners or evil anti gun government at work. What you have to realize is that 1934 was troubled times in our country. Prohibition was in full swing, the great depression was in full swing, and organized crime was rampant. The "mob" was wreaking havoc all around the country, and tommy gun toting gangsters were serving the country's law enforcement their asses on silver platters on a regular basis, with heavy firepower that was available at the local hardware store. The national firearms act was created to save the lives of the men behind the badge-not to deny law abiding citizens their second amendment right. Notice that the term is "restricted"...not illegal.

Today, machine guns, short barreled rifles and shotguns, destructive devices, and suppressors all fall into the category of NFA weapons. You can still very much own these items, granted you do not live in a state that prohibits them. (you'll have to check your state laws about this.)

That I know of, there are currently three ways you can legally purchase NFA weapons. The first is by filing a BATFE form 4 request for transfer, which I will cover. The second is by establishing an NFA trust, which is what I did and I will also cover. There is a third method, by which you can establish a Limited Liability Corporation. I will not cover this method, as I don't know enough about it to speak with any authority.

The BATFE form 4 route is the method that was originally instated by the U.S. government via the BATFE by which a person can legally purchase an NFA weapon. In this process, the buyer must locate a class III dealer. (a class III dealer is a licensed dealer and transferrer of NFA weapons) The buyer will then tell the dealer what he wishes to buy. That dealer then has the buyer fill out the form 4, which is an application to request transfer of an NFA weapon into their possession. The buyer must also submit fingerprint cards, and a passport photograph of himself, along with a check or money order for $200.00 to cover the tax stamp fee. These documents are in turn mailed to the BATFE, upon which the application will be reviewed, and a preliminary background check is run on the applicant. This background check is the same background check that is conducted when buying any firearm...no more, no less.
Upon approval or denial of the application, the BATFE will mail the completed form 4 back to the class III dealer, who will in turn notify the buyer that the form is either approved or denied. If approved, the buyer then has to take this form 4 and have it signed for approval by the chief law enforcement officer(CLEO)of the county/city he or she resides in. Upon this approval, the buyer may then return to the class III dealer, complete the transaction, and take possession of their NFA weapon. The buyer will also be given the original copy of the approved form 4...DO NOT LOOSE IT!!!

All of that having been said, there are some other issues inherent with that process that need to be addressed. Namely, one should be aware that there are some specific rules about ownership of NFA weapons, specifically the transport of and possession of said items. For example, ANYWHERE you have your NFA weapons, you MUST have the approved form 4 as well. If you get pulled over and the police find you in possession of an NFA weapon and you can't produce the form 4 for that weapon, you will have a very bad day, regardless of the fact that you legally own it. I cannot cover all of the rules and regulations here as they are many, and I cannot overstate that if you plan on purchasing NFA weapons, you need to research and fully understand the laws and provisions of ownership, both federal and specific to your state...it is your responsibility as a responsible gun owner to do so, just the same as knowing the laws of owning any gun.

Another point to be aware of...Your CLEO of your county and/or city may not agree to sign off on your form 4. They are in no way obligated to do so, regardless of your character or clean record. This is a topic you should research prior to trying to apply to the BATFE, as they will not refund your money once your form 4 is approved by the BATFE. If you discover that your CLEO will not sign off, do not fret-there is still another option.

The NFA trust is perhaps the best way to go, which is why I have gone this route. You can establish a revocable trust, and legally transfer NFA weapons into this trust as property of said trust. As the settlor and trustee, you are legally permitted to be in possession and full use of any and all property assigned to the trust.As an added benefit to this method, you are not required to submit fingerprint cards, passport photos, or acquire the approval of your CLEO to transfer NFA weapons into a trust.

I know this sounds kind of shady, as if this is a back door, loophole route that is frowned upon. While it is a loophole, it is not frowned upon. The exclusion of the fingerprint cards and passport photos are simply a bi-product of the structure of a trust as opposed to the regular route. In the method mentioned above, the BATFE is transferring the weapon to an individual. By using a trust, the transfer is being made to a holdings entity-and since a holdings entity has neither fingerprints nor a face to photograph, there is no possible way to obtain a photograph or fingerprint cards...thus, those requirements simply "fall off."

As for the signature of approval from the CLEO, one might argue that the trust method is a way of sneaking behind the back of the CLEO...this is not really the case either.

As a man, (or woman) most CLEO's could care less if you want to own an NFA weapon and reside in their domain, granted you have gone through legal channels to do so...and the fact that you are presenting them with a document that has been investigated and cleared by the BATFE should be sufficient proof of such. The problem is that the decision has little to do with them being a person, and a lot to do with them being a CLEO. One must realize-when you have become the chief law enforcement officer within any area, your career is very much a political game. Every choice you make, decision you enact, stance you take, and issue you either approve of or rally against is under constant scrutiny from your political adversaries...and to be quite frank, there are a LOT of anti gunners out there. Hence, to allow a citizen to own an NFA weapon is seen as a huge risk, and that is the reason that a lot of CLEOs won't touch it with a ten foot pole...So by enacting an NFA trust, you are not really going behind their backs, you are simply saving them from having to be put into a spot they might not be comfortable with.

Fact O' the matter is, if purchasing NFA weapons via a revocable trust was in any way illegal, there is no way the BATFE would ever approve the transfers anyway.

The process for establishing a trust for NFA weapons needs specific attention, as there are some specific issues that are unique to this type of trust. DO NOT try to type up one on Quicken or go through a do-it-yourself online trust provider. There have recently been some individuals that have gotten themselves in hot water over having trusts set up that were not specific about owning NFA stuff, and they paid hefty fines, did some time in jail, and got permanently listed as felons, all in the interest of cutting corners and saving some money. It cost them more in the long run, both financially and legally-and that's just not worth it. It is my EXTREMELY STRONG suggestion that you go through the company that I did...their website is as follows...

www.guntrustlawyer.com

This is a Florida based law firm. They will charge you a fee-it cost me $600.00- but they will refer your request to a lawyer within your state, who will draw up your trust in respects to the specific laws of your state as well as the federal laws and make sure it is done RIGHT. As an added bonus, if you should ever find yourself in legal trouble over discrepancies of your trust, they will represent you in court pro bona (if you are in the "right"...and that is good insurance.

To purchase weapons as property of your trust, you will take a copy of your trust to the class III dealer that you choose. They will review your trust, and fill out the form 4 to the BATFE. This form 4 will request the transfer of the weapon into your trust, as property of the trust. You will submit the form 4 with the check or money order for 200 dollars to the BATFE. They will run the background check on whomever is notated as the trustee, and send it back to the dealer either approved or disapproved. Once that happens, if approved, then the trustee can then complete the transaction and take possession of the NFA weapon.

A few things about this method...In addition to having the form 4 with the NFA weapon at all times, you must also have a copy of the trust with the weapon at all times if you go this route. Also, if you plan to buy NFA weapons as property of a trust, then it is very advisable to establish a checking account with a bank of your choice in the name of the trust. Transfer all of the funds that will be used to purchase both the weapon and the tax stamp into this account, and pay for all purchases with either a check or a debit/credit card on this account. The reason for this is simple...remember that you have requested transfer on the form 4 from the dealer into your TRUST, and not to YOU personally. as such, you need to be able to provide a paper trail that indicates that your trust actually acquired those weapons, and not you personally,should it ever come up. If, for whatever reason, you find yourself in court defending the ownership of these weapons, it WILL come up-and if the transactions did not occur in the name of the trust, that's bad...If they occured on your personal checking accout...well, that's REAL bad!

That's it, in a nutshell. Keep in mind, I do not claim to be a lawyer, or even a s**t-house lawyer. I know about this because I did it, but that doesn't mean I know everything about all of it, in every state, for every individual under any circumstance. It's up to YOU to make sure you know the law as it pertains to YOU...but I hope that this has been a good place to start. I wish you all the best of luck, the best of hunts, nothing but 10X rings, and I hope to see a lot more guys with cans on here!

By the way-should you want to know more about the national firearms act of 1934, just google it and follow the link to wikipedia...it is all there.

Good night, and God bless.
Last edit: 13 years 7 months ago by txlongshotb4.
The following user(s) said Thank You: MrMarty51, NightForce

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13 years 7 months ago #7438 by BUILDING MY SASS
Very Nice post Sir...Great Job.
I think I will "sticky" this to the category....
As one who has looked into what it takes to own a "can" as well as getting a FFL license I can verify this information....
I may add...Check the Laws of your "individual" state to see if it allowed,
that is if I am not mistaken on that.
Thanks again for all Your Efforts....
BMS

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13 years 7 months ago #7444 by Edge
Nice write-up!

I do have one question, pertaining to having your form 4 on you at all times. I have been told that the local LEO's have no jurisdiction over NFA items. Only BATF has that authority, so that if you are questioned by a LEO, you don't have to answer them or you can tell them that they are out of their jurisdiciton and they need to bring in a BATF officer.

Now I realize that this could complicate things if a person decides to push this, and that some hot headed LEO would make life misserable for you if you decide to challenge their authority, but what does the law really say?

Personally I have made a credit card sized copy of my form 4 that I carry in my wallet that I can show the proper authority if questioned. I also live in a State that is friendly towards NFA items, in fact a good friend of mine works for Gemtech. I'm sure I got this information from him, and I'll double check with him to make sure......

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13 years 1 month ago #9155 by txlongshotb4
Hello sir,

For one ,I an terribly sorry it has taken me SIX MONTHS to respond to your post! I've been a busy man...made a baby that's due in 4 days, been working, etc...but hey-excuses are like Obama speeches; everyone keeps hearing them and we all know by now not to get our hopes up when we hear them.

My answers to the questions you've asked are simply "I do not know."

You are most likely correct about LEO's not having jurisdiction over NFA items, but keep in mind that they have "jurisdiction" over the situation on the ground as it develops. It would seem logical to me that a BATFE officer or agent would certainly be the authority to convene on any NFA issue. As for what the law really says, you are probably dead on the money...eventually, it is going to require an inquiry from the BATFE in order to verify your legitimacy as a rightful NFA owner. I can promise you however, that you will spend the time it takes from the time you request Federal inquiry until the time it takes for said Federal inquiry to be completed in police custody...and that can take a long time...It's best just to show the cop the Form 4 and go on about you day.

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10 years 7 months ago #37661 by NightForce
This is a very well written post so thank you for spending the time putting it together for our benefit.

While suppressors make sense for a variety of reasons, I live in The Communist Republic of Massachusetts where working tax paying American citizens are apparently untrustworthy therefore suppressors are banned.... :mad:

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10 years 7 months ago - 10 years 7 months ago #37688 by MrMarty51
And a thank You from here too.
I guess if I was ever going to try for a restricted item, I would first go to My CLEO and ask Him/Her if they would approve of Me owning a restricted item.
If they tell Me that no they would not approve of any restricted items, I would then go the "Trust" method.
Just save some time, thats all.
I used to have an explosives permit, so, I do`nt think it would be a problem, getting enough funds together for the approval and the attorney would. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Last edit: 10 years 7 months ago by MrMarty51.

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10 years 7 months ago #37689 by bipe215
I would add that since txlongshot posted his excellent explanation, that the powers that be are moving toward requiring LEO sign offs and photos with trusts.
Also, in Tennessee (don't know about others), LEO is required to sign form 4's if your backround is clear.

Steve
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10 years 7 months ago #37693 by MrMarty51

bipe215 wrote: I would add that since txlongshot posted his excellent explanation, that the powers that be are moving toward requiring LEO sign offs and photos with trusts.
Also, in Tennessee (don't know about others), LEO is required to sign form 4's if your backround is clear.

Steve

OK, thank You for that information, it seems there would be so many things to have to be aware of.
I guess the $600.00 bucks for an attorney would be $600.00 bucks well spent.
Let the attorney deal with those problems, that is what the six hundred is for. End of worries. LOL :busted: :rotfl:

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