Primers...New Qustion.

More
14 years 10 months ago - 14 years 10 months ago #2779 by DMCI*
Replied by DMCI* on topic Re:Primers...New Qustion.
All right listen up.

I am only going to go through this once.

The rifleman's main goal is consistency! (If consistency is not your main goal go to paragraph #B.)

A. So to get consistency you need to the following:

1. Use match primers of the same lot. I personally prefer either FED 210M or FED 215M for magnum match cartridges. For my money, Match primers are just a little more consistent in their ignition chartacteristics.

2. Make your cases consistent by:

a. Clean your cases in tumbler with corn cob.

b. Trim them to length, deburr primer holes, deburr neck inside and out.

3. Buy hand primer seating tool. That one on the press has no feel to it and you need a consistent primer seating feel. Flattened or high primers can materially affect ignition.

4. You need consistent sizing. Carbide sizing dies and ball neck sizer help. If you use case lube, use a pad and make the application consistent. This can affect the resizing process. Wipe case clean after sizing if possible.

5. Get a depth setting tool that allows you to determine optimal overall length. They make a curved one that works with SA weapons.

6. Weigh each and every powder charge. With a powder trickler or autoscale this only takes a little longer and goes a long way to get overall consistency.

7. When seating do it the same way every time. Use consistent pressure and speed in the seating process.

8. Don't store your rounds loose. Put them in plastic or paper containers to protect the bullet tips from damage. I use 100 round plastic boxes for standard size cases. For cases like my 7mm WSM they only make 20 and 50 round boxes.

9. There are all sorts of cartridge guaging devices in the reloading catalog, but I generally don't use these as they are intended for really sophisticated "BUG HOLE" bench resters and the like.

Remember, your goal is every round in the same hole. Practice consistency in you shooting. Consistent Cheek weld, Consistent pressure in the hold. Watch the wind signs for consistent wind.

Did I mention that consistency is imprortant? :)

Some of you want to know the advantages of hand loading. It is a widely known fact that the big commercial loaders don't have the time or money to take this kind of care in loading. One exception is FEDERAL PREMIUM and MATCH ammo. But you pay for it. Federal Match is a good standard to compare your CAREFULLLY CRAFTED hand loads against.


B. Keep doing things the way you are. You will get a loud bang and the bullets will continue to go in the general direction of the target. :lol:
Last edit: 14 years 10 months ago by DMCI*.
The following user(s) said Thank You: jtallen83

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • a Guest
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
14 years 10 months ago #2783 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Primers...New Qustion.
Think about this shooting benchrest we don't weigh our powder charge its done on a visual or by clicks. Its dumped fast not checked at all. About half of the shooters use a loose bullet system so as when the bolt closes the bullet is seated in the chamber or they use a small press or a small hammer to seat the bullets in the inline dies. Half are using match primers in the heat and the remingtons and wolf in the cold. All of those rifles in the match will shoot better groups than most with the avg being under a 1/4 inch. They use a loading process that is the simplest form that there is, it is not high tech at these matches. So where did they go wrong, I ask every class that. My PPCs and Dashers shoot the same bug hole with a grain difference in powder from case to case or inter mixed. The students will load the cases and try to disprove the groups but they never do. The ammo loading procedures aren't as you described for these rifles of which are the most accurate in the world. Its much less complicated than any MFG out there, remember the lawyers sapping off of thie business. As you described the proceedurs are the best for the common reloader and I am in agreement, but where did the target shooters stray off to get the tight groups. The last match I shot I had a .2188ag and that was good for 3rd. A .2166 won it and last place was .263. Who makes the first mistake reading the wind or some other brain fart is the first looser. The benchrest boys load on the fly much as our citizens did in the 1770s. I think they won or run the Brits off, but were still paying telephone tax on the Spanish American war so I'm not sure of that out come yet.MSH

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 years 9 months ago - 14 years 9 months ago #2850 by DMCI*
Replied by DMCI* on topic Re:Primers...New Qustion.
You are absolutely correct in what you say. Those match shooters and bench resters do exactly that. What they don't tell you is that they achieve consistency by using their powder measures with exactly the same speed and force every time. They are trained by habit or by watching the old guys and how they do it. As you suggest they also get instant feedback on the target if they don't do it absolutely correctly.

Problem is without this training and/or years of experience the average joe can't get to that level. But, with a little care and taking full advantage of the tools we have, we can get really close with attention to detail. One of these is by weighing charges.

Similarly using match primers and bullets and doing a little work on the cases you can approach the same results as these pros get.

These bug hole shooters that reload on the range treat their qualified cases like gold. They weigh, trim, and gauge them. I've seen it and that's the reason they load at the range with sometimes with arbor presses using super precision dies and craftman like work manship, things the average ROCKCHUCKER knows little about. If you need consistent .25 moa performance then that's how you achieve it. On the other, performance in the range of just under 1 moa is really adequate for most long range hunters and varminters in my experience.

Roy Weatherby said all you needed for hunting was 1.5 moa, but that is a little big for me.

This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.




RELOADING WITH WILSON DIES AND AN ARBOR PRESS

1.Set the neck die base on the base of the arbor press. The neck die base is black in color, a little larger in diameter than the Wilson die. It has steps turned on each end. The steps on one end of the base are not as deep as on the other end. The end with the shallow steps is the top.

2. There are two allen screws on top of the Wilson neck die. Remove them and remove the top of the die. This will expose the recess for the neck bushing. Insert the bushing and reassemble the top to the die. The size number stamped on one side of the bushing should face up. If you want a tighter fit, place the numbers down. This will increase tension by .0003" if you are using a Wilson bushing.(Redding & Wilson bushings are interchangeable, but Redding bushings are the same size on both sides.)

3. To size a case take a fired case and insert it into the neck die. Set the die, with base of fired case pointing up, on neck die base. Adjust the arbor press head (blue part on the Haydon press) so that the fired case, die and neck die base slip under the ram of the arbor press when the rack gear is in the up position. This adjustment is made by loosening the large allen screw on the right side of the blue head and sliding it vertically to the desired height, then locking the screw. Now push the fired case into the die with the ram. Turn the die over and push the pin down. This removes the primer from the case and the case from the die.

4. Reprime the case and charge it with powder.

5. Seat a bullet using the seater base. Put the base on the arbor press base. Set a bullet on the case mouth. Put the die over the bullet/case and slide under the press ram. Seat bullet. Adjust the seater stem per instructions with the seater.


This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.

Last edit: 14 years 9 months ago by DMCI*.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • a Guest
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
14 years 9 months ago #2851 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Primers...New Qustion.
I didn't think about posting a picture of a target and the different group size or relationship with the powder charges, I'm about dense 3 days a week. Thats a good example and reed. I think the brass prep is 2nd nature to me. These guys can get them one of those Redding BR powder throws with a couple of baffles made from a milk jug and have a reasonable priced unit that throws very evenly. Wonder if theres a need to show this stuff. What your showing with your picture is that a lower powder charge has a better group and will be more accurate than faster bullet speed on most types of ammo. There are a few exceptions to that. I seen Nat Burchant saw 6" of his barrel off then crowned it with a 6 flut burr in a cordless drill in a match and finished in the top 10. It was funny as it gets but it improved his agg. So think about that one. I have a 300 win mag that will shoot in the high ones which is with the BR rifles in group size but the barrel life is limited to a 1000rds. Stuff like that is a abnormal foo-dog. I have terible loading habbits with that rifle because of the barrels accruacy. It would shoot good with black powder. There is very much I do loading on experance and its 2nd nature as a benchrest shooter.MSH

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 years 9 months ago #2854 by DMCI*
Replied by DMCI* on topic Re:Primers...New Qustion.
mmsshh wrote:

I think the brass prep is 2nd nature to me. These guys can get them one of those Redding BR powder throws with a couple of baffles made from a milk jug and have a reasonable priced unit that throws very evenly..... I seen Nat Burchant saw 6" of his barrel off then crowned it with a 6 flut burr in a cordless drill in a match and finished in the top 10. It was funny as it gets but it improved his agg. So think about that one. MSH


Why am I not surprised? Sounds absdolutely wonderful! :cheer:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.