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Combat vets are OFFENSIVE

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9 years 6 months ago #45302 by OleCowboy
Sorry boys, those tours and months spent in some stinking jungle or sand hole are offensive and it looks like don't ask, don't tell is still alive for us COMBAT Vets...



BCT banishes combat patches, badges to boost morale


You earn it, you keep it, you wear it. That's how many soldiers value their combat patches, badges and insignia that display who they are and what they've done.

But while in the field, the commander of Fort Carson's 1st Stryker Brigade Combat Team wants soldiers' uniforms to be bare to the bone, only showing name, rank, American flag, U.S. Army tape and the unit's 4th Infantry Division insignia.

The purpose is to promote a unified Army culture, Col. David Hodne recently told the Colorado Springs Gazette.

Hodne also wants to boost morale by making newcomers feel welcome.

"While we are all proud of our individual accomplishments, when training in the field, we're building a team and do not need to focus, or be distracted, by our own or others' individual accomplishments," said Maj. Kevin Boyd, spokesman for the 1st Stryker Brigade Combat Team.

Hodne could not be reached for further comment.

"As time goes on and the Army's transitioned somewhat, we find more and more of our soldiers without that combat experience," Boyd told Military Times. "And this really assists them in integrating into the unit."

Boyd said in garrison, soldiers can pin back on anything they want.

The modification has allowed for their Stryker brigade to train more efficiently, Boyd said.

But the move has some soldiers riled up.

"Combat patches aren't worn to say 'look I've deployed' or 'I love this unit'," wrote Tom Simpkins on the Army Times Facebook page in an answer to a request for comment. "I wear mine as a scar, I wear it for every single person who deployed with me and every minute of rough times we went through."

"It seems ridiculous, especially in an infantry or other combat MOSs," Joseph Crescitelli wrote on Facebook. "It lets newer guys (such as myself) know who to look to for guidance for first person experience as well as demands that extra bit of respect."

According to Army Regulation 670-1, Authorization 22-2, soldiers are authorized to wear their awards if not prohibited by the commander, said Paul Prince, spokesman for Manpower & Reserve Affairs.

Prince said the uniform change is most commonly done during training, but Headquarters, Department of the Army, does not track unit's local uniform policies or wear guidance.

But is the trend becoming a new norm for Army units?

Boyd said he and Hodne had similar experiences previously, such as the 75th Ranger Regiment not wearing any significant insignia while in the field. "We've just enhanced that for the entire brigade here," Boyd said of the Carson brigade, which has more than 4,000 soldiers.

Some soldiers say they have experienced a no-patch rule before, both overseas and stateside.

Christopher Parker said when he switched over from cavalry scout to infantry, "all prior service and active duty soldiers were ordered by the CSM to remove their combat patches."

"At the end of the course at graduation, I then realized that I had more deployments and awards then my [drill sergeants]. Maybe that was the point. I don't know, but I feel by removing my patches somewhat dishonored my friends who had [passed] on my deployments," Parker said.

"Recently at my new unit, we were required to remove them while in the field," Simpkins wrote. "It was one of the biggest insults so far in my Army career, and I know I wasn't the only one to think so. I bear my scar with pride, and refuse to cover it up to appeal to anyone."

But others said it could be a good move for the 'newbie' in an all-experienced unit.

One soldier, not identified, wrote in an email to Military Times that after graduating basic combat training, he wished a no-combat patch rule could have been implemented during his first unit assignment because his lack of patches was the reason he stood out.

"NCO's would walk in the dayroom as the whole company was there and would say, 'Anyone without a combat patch start pushing' and I would be the ONLY guy getting smoked in front of everyone else for an hour," he said. "This was the start of hazing over the next few months that led to overuse injuries, assault, and sexual assault ... and almost death."

The brigade commander wants all of his soldiers to fight as one, and foster a spirit of camaraderie.

"We have a lot more support soldiers than what a normal brigade does, and this has allowed them to integrate a lot better," Boyd said. "It doesn't really matter if you're a truck driver or an infantry soldier or a cav scout, here you're a team."

www.armytimes.com/story/military/2015/06...n-training/28927601/
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9 years 6 months ago #45310 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Combat vets are OFFENSIVE
They earn em they should have the right to wear them.

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9 years 6 months ago #45313 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Combat vets are OFFENSIVE
Makes no sense at all. While I was in I looked for those combat patches. I saw these men as my guides, if a person paid attention they would mentor you in the proper ways. In the field training would seem to be the most important place for these men to be identified as someone who has been there and done that. Just can't imagine why a good soldier would loose morale because of someones combat patch,
a very puzzling statement :huh:
Hell, I didn't see combat but that Ranger scroll and jump wings gives me the kick in the ass I need some days to get things done....stupid PC crap :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead:

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9 years 6 months ago #45316 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Combat vets are OFFENSIVE
The reason why is because the Army does not want to offend any soldiers who have not going to combat. Several years ago they came up with a phony badge, looks like it has a bayonet and looks similar to the CIB. I have the CIB and you get it by being on the killing fields in the bloody arena. But the Combat Action badge you get if you were in country and TDY there. GIVE ME A FRIGGIN break. We have have a job to do and damn sure do not think less of a clerk or cook or anyone else. I KNOW their job is to support me out there beyond the wire and I have thanked everyone I have met....many of them want to offer apologies, none needed I tell them, I survived 14 mo of combat and you played a role in that survival, thank you...

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9 years 6 months ago #45317 by Libertarian623
Cowboy this is total BS, this is a officer using one instance to push his own agenda. Maybe he was constantly being reminded of his own short comings on a daily basis, (for him it is personal)or someone on his staff. What ever his major malfunction, it needs to be brought out in the light of day.
I remember a SSGT Reed from my AIT, we new he was a combat vet by his patches and his CIB demanded are respect. We followed his words of wisdom unquestionably. We had no idea what a true badass he was until graduation day when for the first time we saw his class A. He had two bronze stars and a silver star and a shit ton of other commendations. It was a hour before graduation when our small group met in the barracks to check uniforms. Everybody stood silent for a few minutes taking it in ( everybody was basically reviewing all the stories and pieces of advise that he had given us in the last 9 months and categorizing them into a new folder in there brain titled OPEN IN TIME OF WAR). SSGT Reed was from a Nasty Guard unit from New England area, we new he had experience in combat as a infantryman just didn't know how much.
Anyways it was awesome watching our PC and other staff officer's in attendance salute SSGT Reed when he went down the line for his AIT diploma. The eyes betrayed their surprise, after graduation the post commander engaged SSGT Reed for thirty minutes in conversation. Then the post CSM, and so on for a hour or so. All the while we ( E-3 n 4's)stood silent watching. Afterwards at the NCO club we yucked it up good. I can't remember but I think he had five rows of medals. Anyways he was easily the most decorated soldier I had ever seen.
Its easy to feel jealousy toward another's accomplishment's, the fact that the General wants to change the uniform policy only reveals his own character flaws and I am sure has raised a few red flags among his peers and the Pentagon. His file now has a new tag attached to it for sure.
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9 years 6 months ago #45318 by OleCowboy
Replied by OleCowboy on topic Combat vets are OFFENSIVE
Bingo Lib, whether or not this is a rouge officer or not, can't say for sure, but its in the Army Times which tells me his chain of command know of it and condone it. I have long since forgotten at what level and it takes to make unit uniform changes. But it does go up the CoC for approval.

Back in the 70's when I was at Ft Hood, it was called Ft Many Hats. Lot of units had special headgear for wear on Ft HOOD ONLY.

HINT: When you begin to see things like this and the justification given is "to boost morale" you can bet the unit/Div/Ft/Army is having a lot of internal issues. What the Army has done historically has been to weed out its combat soldiers. As opposed to the Marines who covet warrior-hood and they seek to retain. I have always felt the Army was to big of and org and not enough combat soldiers.

If you have kept up with my posting over the years you would have read about the soldiers I personally knew who never served a day in combat (in spite of being combat arms) and never had a short/hardship tour and coasted thru the Army in soft assignments.

Were I CoS USA:

100% of officers would serve 2 years enlisted in TO&E units and do so at enlisted pay and allowances. Upon completion you would be COMMISSIONED and pin on your bars. The 2 years spent would count towards retirement, pay etc.

100% of all West Point Officers would be assigned a TO&E combat unit for 2 years , those whose MOS was combat arms would continue on in their career, those who had another MOS would be transferred into that field and follow their career from there.


The entire military complex is there for a singular reason and that is to support those who have the mission: "to close with and engage the enemy" We only have 2 Infantry orgs..USA/USMC. The secondary mission is to support the Combat Arms: Arty, Armor, etc.

In other words the whole purpose is to support those who live BEYOND the FEBA and do the work of rough men on the killing fields and in the bloody arena.

It might be time to re-org our entire military:

USMC: ALL TO&E Combat Arms

Army: Support all land combat operations

USAF: Support all Air combat and direct support for USMC operations

USN: Support all Naval warfare and direct support for USMC operations

USCG: Support all Water operations within the 200 mi limits of the US and its Territories and all inter-land water operations that cross state lines and all Army Corp of Engineer waters.

Army, Navy, AF, operate in a combat and combat support role (when unique combat support is required: ie: Naval ships, AF planes

USJFSC: US Joint Forces Support Command: Personnel and staffing for all services that SHARE common MOS. In example: Truck Drivers, Food services, Pay, Logistics, Medical mostly what is known as Combat Service Support. The cook in the chow hall does not need to be Army, Navy or AF, he does not care nor does the soldier eating chow. This would go a long ways towards removing the churn of personnel and result in huge costs savings to the services and the taxpayer.

What would I know, just a Pfc in a stinkin jungle back in '67.
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9 years 6 months ago #45319 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Combat vets are OFFENSIVE
I read your post twice Cowboy, I'm sure it will not work.....it is full of logic and common sense. The Government will never stand for the injection of these mores.
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9 years 6 months ago #45323 by Libertarian623
Cowboy -
" USJFSC: US Joint Forces Support Command: Personnel and staffing for all services that SHARE common MOS. In example: Truck Drivers, Food services, Pay, Logistics, Medical mostly what is known as Combat Service Support. The cook in the chow hall does not need to be Army, Navy or AF, he does not care nor does the soldier eating chow. This would go a long ways towards removing the churn of personnel and result in huge costs savings to the services and the taxpayer."

Cowboy that's a great idea.
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9 years 6 months ago #45329 by Siscowet
Replied by Siscowet on topic Combat vets are OFFENSIVE
Some great ideas Cowboy. It would be a lot more effective force.
:thumbs:
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9 years 5 months ago #45350 by MrMarty51
Replied by MrMarty51 on topic Combat vets are OFFENSIVE
Due to complications from My heart skipping beats, I was not allowed to continue on with My military career.
However, I was passed through basic training and, received the awards of Expert Marksman, twice, D.Is told Me I should go in for sniper training, but, they discharged Me instead.
When I was allowed to wear My uniforms, I was proud, in a humble way, to wear and display My accomplishments.
I could not imagine, a soldier not allowed to wear the badges of their accomplishments too.

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