Piston Gas System - Best I've seen

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16 years 2 months ago #303 by mlotziii
Piston Gas System - Best I've seen was created by mlotziii
The only commercially available AR-10 with a piston gas system that I have come across is the LWRC.

This concept is a huge advantage of the traditional gas system found in AR-style rifles. When the topic comes around this is a great feature to be in the Ultimate AR-10

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16 years 2 months ago #310 by AZMM
Replied by AZMM on topic Re:Piston Gas System - Best I've seen
I had the opportunity to put a HK416 through its paces last year and was honestly impressed. However, the full potential of such gas piston systems really have their place in short barreled full-auto weapons. They also seem to have problems with shearing the carrier key off during firing and with uneven bolt wear from the info I have read and also been told by users of such platforms.

Personally, I'm sticking with the tried and true DI weapons until the bugs are worked out with the HK and LWRC weapons.

Just fyi. Apparently the U.S. military pulled all of the HK416s from Special Ops service which doesn't speak well for the platform. A U.S. based SWAT team I'm aware of has also been very disappointed with their 10 or so HK416s in reliability.

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16 years 2 months ago #312 by bigwheel
Replied by bigwheel on topic Re:Piston Gas System - Best I've seen
I have an 8.5x24 varix3 on a 22-250. Originally had it on the ar10t and went to a 1.8x10 uso. Too long
of an acquisition time for a battle rifle for my tastes.

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13 years 9 months ago #6792 by LebbenB
Replied by LebbenB on topic Re:Piston Gas System - Best I've seen

However, the full potential of such gas piston systems really have their place in short barreled full-auto weapons.

Sorry for the necro-post, but I must disagree with this statement. The true value of a piston-based system comes when using it supressed. On a supressed DI gun, the blowback is so bad that it's NMC from fouling after only 80-90 rounds. A piston system eliminates much of the blowback by venting unneeded gas from ports by the gas piston.

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13 years 8 months ago - 13 years 8 months ago #6823 by Lazerus2011
Replied by Lazerus2011 on topic Parts left out cost nothing and rarely break!!!
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Why mess with success?
K.I.S.S.

Why add a piston and other heavy, complicated parts to an AR 10 in an attempt to improve functional reliability, when reliability is already outstanding?
PLUS,
Adding a piston and other reciprocating bits to an AR 10,
will most likely NOT improve the SUPERB ACCURACY that is common with the simpler, lighter, more elegant AR 10 gas system.

The original direct gas system AR 10 in 7.62 NATO was NOT plagued by reliability issues. These original AR 10s also had chrome plated bolts, carriers and firing pins, so cleaning wasn't much of an issue either. And the original AR 10s did NOT have a forward assist, and didn't need one. The powerful 7.62 Nato and .308 Win rounds have more than enough energy to move the AR 10 bolt back. I even shot the ultra light Remington Accelerator [.308 sabot reduced to .223 ] ammunition reliably and accurately out of some of my original AR 10s. And the larger diameter big heavy bolt and buffer spring of the original AR 10s had more than enough power to resize your ammunition on the go when the bolt slammed home.

The only weak spot I discovered with those old original AR 10 rifles, was that the aluminum waffle magazines were not very durable, and the feed lips could get worn or bent too easily.

PS: These opinions are based on experience firing THOUSANDS of rounds of 7.62 NATO and various light "tactical" .308 Win RE-loads through dozens of genuine original AR 10 rifles ... some on "Fast Forward". I will admit that here in Canuckistan, where NO silencers are legal for civilians, I have no experience with an AR 10 equipped with a "snuffler". BUT if I did want a "snuffler", I would build myself another .300 Whisper AR 15 ... WHICH LAUNCHES HEAVY SUB-SONIC .30 CAL BULLETS THROUGH A LIGHTER, MORE COMPACT AR 15 CARBINE, WITH MUCH MORE EFFICIENCY THAN ANY SUB-SONIC.308 WIN AR 10.

These days, some of the modern new generation AR10/AR 15 HYBRIDS, have enough evolution and refinement to match the reliability and durability and accuracy of the old genuine AR 10s. My DPMS built Remington R25 rifles have always functioned flawlessly with various types of 7.62 NATO ball ammo, and also with .308 Win factory loads ranging from 110 gr to 200 gr. They are sub-moa rifles with several of these loads.

So what more do you need?
Why change the AR 10, when it is already the BEST!!
LAZ 1
Last edit: 13 years 8 months ago by Lazerus2011.

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13 years 8 months ago #6830 by LebbenB
Replied by LebbenB on topic Re:Parts left out cost nothing and rarely break!!!

I would build myself another .300 Whisper AR 15

AAC and Remington have gotten together ("Got together" is knda misleading. Both companies are part of Cerebus' Freedom Group.) and have introduced .300 Blackout. It's similar to Whisper, but Rem claims ammo will be priced around what you'd pay for a box of qualiy .308. We shall see...

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13 years 8 months ago #6836 by Lazerus2011
Replied by Lazerus2011 on topic BTDT with .300 Whisper AND 6.8 SPC Rem
and,
IMHO,
AS A CANADIAN,
NEITHER CALIBER IS VIABLE FOR ME !!!

I REALLY wanted to find that "ONE GUN Tactical Solution", an AR that does it all. An AR that is light and nimble, but powerful enough for CQB, AND shooting a bullet that is accurate and powerful enough to be viable out to long distances. I had high hopes for some of the new "Tacticool" cartridges that have been optimised for the AR15. SO, I experimented with stronger calibers in the lighter/shorter AR 15/M4gry platform.

I imported two .300 Whisper 16" SS barrels for the AR 15, along with 1000 brass and Redding dies. In Canuckistan, .300 Whisper is a "reload only / wildcat" proposition. Reloading for a SEMI AUTO AR sucks!! Big time!!! You can shoot off the loaded ammo so much faster than you can pull that lever on the reloading press ... even with a Dillon progressive. And don't get me started on how long it takes to set up the brass properly for ACCURATE/MATCH GRADE reloads.

So I sold my .300 Whispers.

Then along came the 6.8 SPC, with REMINGTON FACTORY AMMO available here in Canuckistan. So I got myself a new RRA 16" AR in 6.8. And I went down to my local gun shop to pick up some 6.8 Rem ammo.OMFG!!!!They wanted more for the 6.8 SPC ammo than they did for .308 Win ammo. I bought 100 rds of the precious 6.8 SPC, and yes, the caliber is cool and potentially a much better choice for CQB than the good ol' poodle shootin' 5.56. But if factory 6.8 SPC ammo costs more than .308 Win, why not shoot the more powerful and much more versatile .308 in one of my AR 10s? And if I want a lighter / faster CQB cartridge, why not shoot the lighter 125 GR sp .308 Win factory loads?

So I sold my 6.8 SPC.

For my CQB set up, I went back to an 11.5" M4rgry AR 15 in 5.56. And I stocked up on much more inexpensive and more readily available 5.56 and .223 ammo for it. AND, I bought myself a .22 LR conversion kit for my AR 15. These days, I shoot a LOT of .22 LR ammo out of my AR 15, and use the 5.56 and .223 mostly at the beginning and the end of my range sessions.

As for the "NEW IMPROVED" SAMMI standardised .300 Whisper,
aka "whatever cool new name they are calling it",
and as for the possibility of Remington Factory loaded ammo to go along with it,
unless they make this new .30 cal/223 ammo close to the price of .223 and/or .308 Win, and make it as readily available in Canada as are the ubiquitous .223 and/or .308 Win, why then I'll stick to .223 and to .308.

With the versatility to shoot .22 LR and .223 in my AR 15, AND the ability to shoot VARIOUS WEIGHT BULLETS FROM 110 grs to 200 grs in my .308 Win AR 10, instead of one rifle to do it all, I have TWO.
And that ain't too bad.
LAZ 1

PS: The ONE GUN dream dies hard.
I suspect that eventually the smaller /lighter AR 15 platform will finally evolve into that "ONE GUN Tactical Solution". But for now, loading down an AR 10 in .308 Win, makes more sense to me than loading up an AR 15in any bigger bore caliber. I still have hopes for chopping one of my AR 10S into a versatile short barreled CQB/designated marksman WANNABEE. Shooting 125 Gr TAP for CQB and 168 GR and 7.62 BALL for longer ranges, this would be close to my perfect "Battle Carbine".

The experimentation continues

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13 years 8 months ago #6837 by dpmsfulton
Replied by dpmsfulton on topic Re:BTDT with .300 Whisper AND 6.8 SPC Rem
Did you consider the 6.5 Grendel. Better ballistics and energy than the 308 at long range, fits the AR15 platform. However, it is pricey and not plentiful. You're right, one gun does die hard.

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