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Norma Military Production .308 168 grain on sale
- Lizardette
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11 years 2 months ago #28705
by Lizardette
Norma Military Production .308 168 grain on sale was created by Lizardette
www.midwayusa.com/product/315535/norma-m...-boat-tail-box-of-50
Basically, it's $1.10 per round, over-run from a european military sniper ammunition contract. At least that's what the description says. Fifty rounds per box, limit two boxes. You may not be able to buy a bunch of it, but the price is better than most sources of Federal Gold Medal Match right now, and the brass (I don't think Norma makes berdan primed brass) should be good. I've got a couple of boxes on the way.
Thought I'd let the rest of you know as well.
Basically, it's $1.10 per round, over-run from a european military sniper ammunition contract. At least that's what the description says. Fifty rounds per box, limit two boxes. You may not be able to buy a bunch of it, but the price is better than most sources of Federal Gold Medal Match right now, and the brass (I don't think Norma makes berdan primed brass) should be good. I've got a couple of boxes on the way.
Thought I'd let the rest of you know as well.
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- Lizardette
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11 years 2 months ago #29161
by Lizardette
Replied by Lizardette on topic Norma Military Production .308 168 grain on sale
I just wanted to update everyone on my testing of these cartridges.
The good news is that the cases are reloadable. The "bad" news is that the velocity is on the low side. It's listed on the box as 777 meters per second. If my math is correct, that comes out to 2564.1 feet per second. The highest velocity I recorded was 2450, and that was a fluke. The average for 40 rounds out of two 24 inch barreled bolt guns was a bit below 2400 feet per second (at about 10 feet from the muzzle). Apparently the M852 match load was only supposed to be going 2550 (+/-30) feet per second (at 78 feet). Either way, I consider that a significant difference.
I used two different bolt actions for this round of testing because I wanted to see how this ammo performed from both a 1-12" twist barrel and a 1-10". Both were 24" barrels, attached to Winchester actions. No scope adjustments were made during the 10 shot strings. In fact, adjustments were made before the fifty yard groups, based on a group of 150 grain FMJ reloads - and: after the 50 yard groups, to hopefully get the 100 yard group centered on the target. From the 1-12" barrel, even after adjusting to the left, the 100 yards groups were still to the right. The groups from the 1-10" barrel were much better centered.
As you can see here, the five round sight in group (from an FN PBR - 1 in 12" twist) at 50 yards looked promising.
This was the first ten shot group at 100 yards. The first shot went low. The second shot went high. The other eight went through that 0.625" hole. It is conceivable that one of those eight doubled the hole at the top. Either way, total group size for 10 consecutive shots was 1.692" - edge to edge.
The second ten round group is slightly smaller, edge to edge, at 1.525".
The five shot sight in group at 50 from the Winchester 670 (1 in 10" twist) was not appreciably larger for the range I was shooting.
The first 100 yard group from the 670 was the best of the day. Again, 10 shots. Overall it measures 1.283".
The second ten shot group at 100 yards wasn't quite as good, but still smaller than the better group from the PBR at 1.508".
So, I guess velocity isn't *everything* after-all.
Conditions were nice. It was hot, but not as hot as it had been earlier in the week. There wasn't much wind to speak of either. I was firing off of sandbags on a bench (in the shade, thank the gods). I used the same scope on both rifles. It's a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x. As for why I had to switch one scope between two rifles, and ... well, you'll see how much I love my partner.
I honestly think a more experienced shooter could have done better. I concentrated on every shot: natural point of aim, breathing, trigger squeeze - but there were still times I was certain I pulled shots. Still, I think it shows the ammo has potential.
I'm planning on putting the other box through two semi-autos, 25 rounds each in a semi-auto M14 (1-12" twist) and my LR-308 (1-10" twist). Both have shorter barrels than the bolt guns, and I'm looking forward to seeing what difference (if any) that makes on velocity. Either way, I'll shoot them the same way I shot these two bolt guns and record everything the same - so I will have more pictures for y'all.
The good news is that the cases are reloadable. The "bad" news is that the velocity is on the low side. It's listed on the box as 777 meters per second. If my math is correct, that comes out to 2564.1 feet per second. The highest velocity I recorded was 2450, and that was a fluke. The average for 40 rounds out of two 24 inch barreled bolt guns was a bit below 2400 feet per second (at about 10 feet from the muzzle). Apparently the M852 match load was only supposed to be going 2550 (+/-30) feet per second (at 78 feet). Either way, I consider that a significant difference.
I used two different bolt actions for this round of testing because I wanted to see how this ammo performed from both a 1-12" twist barrel and a 1-10". Both were 24" barrels, attached to Winchester actions. No scope adjustments were made during the 10 shot strings. In fact, adjustments were made before the fifty yard groups, based on a group of 150 grain FMJ reloads - and: after the 50 yard groups, to hopefully get the 100 yard group centered on the target. From the 1-12" barrel, even after adjusting to the left, the 100 yards groups were still to the right. The groups from the 1-10" barrel were much better centered.
As you can see here, the five round sight in group (from an FN PBR - 1 in 12" twist) at 50 yards looked promising.
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This was the first ten shot group at 100 yards. The first shot went low. The second shot went high. The other eight went through that 0.625" hole. It is conceivable that one of those eight doubled the hole at the top. Either way, total group size for 10 consecutive shots was 1.692" - edge to edge.
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The second ten round group is slightly smaller, edge to edge, at 1.525".
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The five shot sight in group at 50 from the Winchester 670 (1 in 10" twist) was not appreciably larger for the range I was shooting.
This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.
Please log in or register to see it.
The first 100 yard group from the 670 was the best of the day. Again, 10 shots. Overall it measures 1.283".
This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.
Please log in or register to see it.
The second ten shot group at 100 yards wasn't quite as good, but still smaller than the better group from the PBR at 1.508".
This image is hidden for guests.
Please log in or register to see it.
Please log in or register to see it.
So, I guess velocity isn't *everything* after-all.
Conditions were nice. It was hot, but not as hot as it had been earlier in the week. There wasn't much wind to speak of either. I was firing off of sandbags on a bench (in the shade, thank the gods). I used the same scope on both rifles. It's a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x. As for why I had to switch one scope between two rifles, and ... well, you'll see how much I love my partner.
I honestly think a more experienced shooter could have done better. I concentrated on every shot: natural point of aim, breathing, trigger squeeze - but there were still times I was certain I pulled shots. Still, I think it shows the ammo has potential.
I'm planning on putting the other box through two semi-autos, 25 rounds each in a semi-auto M14 (1-12" twist) and my LR-308 (1-10" twist). Both have shorter barrels than the bolt guns, and I'm looking forward to seeing what difference (if any) that makes on velocity. Either way, I'll shoot them the same way I shot these two bolt guns and record everything the same - so I will have more pictures for y'all.
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- Lizardette
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11 years 2 months ago #29176
by Lizardette
Replied by Lizardette on topic Norma Military Production .308 168 grain on sale
You're very welcome Sisco.
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