Flat tops with the fixed front site post...

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11 years 2 weeks ago - 11 years 2 weeks ago #32008 by Sharkey
Flat tops with the fixed front site post... was created by Sharkey
I've never understood these models.

If you are going to get a flat top, I always figured the reason was so you could mount your own optics closer to the level of travel of your round for accuracy.

If you are going to buy one with a carry handle and fixed from site, you are normally doing it because you MAY wish to mount optics but also greatly depend and trust the standards battle sites.

With the flat top and the front site post, doesn't this greatly interfere with your optics mounting and force you to raise your scope up to a level as high as a carry handle anyway just to clear that front site?

Does anyone have one like this and what are your applications for it? Are you using a fast, reflex sight (or variation) and maybe going with a co-witness type thing or what?

an example...

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Last edit: 11 years 2 weeks ago by Sharkey.

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11 years 2 weeks ago #32010 by 13fcolt
Replied by 13fcolt on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...
What are these iron sights you speak of?

The pinned front sight base is simple and rugged, add to that most optics over 3x and the fsb is just a blur making it the best bang for the buck as a backup. Really the best time to use a folding sight is for red dots with no magnification since the fsb is visible and more of an obstruction.

Personaly I like offset irons for back up. tilting the weapon to keep shooting is as quick as it gets.

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11 years 2 weeks ago #32011 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...
My PM400 is set up this way. I was a little concerned at first but after I mounted the red dot with a riser it doesn't bother me a bit, it has a 1/3 co-wittiness. When I mount a front sight on my AR-10 I don't notice it at all except at my lowest magnification,2.5, and then it is only a faint blur that doesn't interfere at all.

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11 years 2 weeks ago #32012 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...
You know, the battle sights found on a standard M16.

I'm just wondering about scoping a rifle like that is all but if it's a "co-witness" thing then I get it but if I was going to get one with a fixed front sight post like the one pictured, I'd figure I might as well just get it with the carry handle as well...

But that's me and, well, you know me.... :laugh:

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11 years 2 weeks ago #32015 by MrMarty51
Replied by MrMarty51 on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...
HHHHMMMMMmmmm, inneresting to say duh leasht.
Something else to watch out for of the day ever comes that I could afford another AR type of a rifle.
Mine AR does have the carry handle and fixedated fron site. I often times wish that it was a flat top so that the scope could be mounted lower.
I had never given it a thought about how a fixedated fron site could possibly innerfere wit a scope mounted to duh flatt topp.
Maybe, after I git this cabeenut finished installing in duh garudge, I then wilt be able to gut to duh safe, get the AR10 out, sort of lay a scope alongkside a it, sort of point the scopeing in duh direction of duh fron postum site an see if I can visualize duh fron site in a duh scope.
Prolly be just a blur, I`ll try an set the scope on a lowest az plossible settingk, see whutum looksum likeum.
Might be a day or two cause I works kinda sloooow, sorta likes Mine typingk. :cowboy:

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11 years 1 week ago #32129 by mrraley
Replied by mrraley on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...
this was something Colt had done in the late 90's with their excess rifles.

This is what was later designated as the M-16A4. A flat top M-16 and an A2 front sight equipped with an M-68 CCO (Aimpoint) co-witnessed.

Even the M-4 line of carbines were set up as flat tops and A2 front sight.
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11 years 1 week ago #32133 by Sharkey
Replied by Sharkey on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...
I was thinking it must be a co-witness thing. Thanks for the details.... :)

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11 years 1 week ago #32177 by Lizardette
Replied by Lizardette on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...
My DPMS LR-308 is set up that way.

Basically it goes like this:

- I like the most rigidly attached iron sights that I can get. If there'd been an AR10A2 available, I would have gotten one. So, I settled for having only the front sight permanently mounted.

- I do have a detachable carry handle, and it works pretty well. The fact that I can switch between the carry handle and a scope is a bonus.

- Until you get down to maybe 2.5x, you don't see the front sight base through the scope (even with a low mounted scope). It looks weird from the side, but it works when you've got it at your shoulder.

The way that I had it set up originally was with a folding rear sight and a quick-detachable scope mount. I primarily used the scope, but if it ever got damaged (that actually happened once) or if I needed to rule out the scope as a factor in some accuracy related issue (that's happened too), I could remove it and flip up the rear iron sight and keep shooting. I left it zeroed for 200 yards with the load I used most, and it worked.

Basically, having the railed flat-top receiver added some versatility to the rifle, and it's served me well. Now, I've gone back to having the carry handle mounted - so it would be legal for use as a Service Rifle in NRA (not CMP) High-Power. If I wanted a red-dot (with or without a magnifier) on it , I could co-witness it with the front sight and either a fixed or folding rear-sight if I wanted. It wouldn't make a lot of sense on a 20" heavy barrel/A2 stock, but I *could* do it - maybe for a three-gun competition or something.

The bottom line as I see it is three-fold. It's more stable than a folding (or fixed detachable type) front sight. It's always up and ready to use. It doesn't get in the way near as much as you'd think. :)
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11 years 1 week ago #32257 by faawrenchbndr
Replied by faawrenchbndr on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...
I prefer a pinned front sight base on a carbine that I primarily run an AimPoint on.
I leave the rear sight folded down generally. I use a mount that allows absolute co-witness.
The front sight and the fact that I have an absolute co-witness sight guarantees that I have the same cheek weld, and alignment, every time. Consistency is very important in obtaining accuracy.

I have another carbine that I run an ACOG on, that one has a full rail and folding sights.

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11 years 1 week ago #32258 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Flat tops with the fixed front site post...

faawrenchbndr wrote: I prefer a pinned front sight base on a carbine that I primarily run an AimPoint on.
I leave the rear sight folded down generally. I use a mount that allows absolute co-witness.
The front sight and the fact that I have an absolute co-witness sight guarantees that I have the same cheek weld, and alignment, every time. Consistency is very important in obtaining accuracy.

I have another carbine that I run an ACOG on, that one has a full rail and folding sights.

How do I know what size riser I would need for an absolute co-witness? What I have came with the red dot and gave me 1/3 co-witness. I might like to try it with the full co-witness, I'm experiencing what you mean about the cheek weld change. My biggest concern would be losing sight picture but I guess if I learn the correct both eyes open technique then sight picture size isn't an issue.............

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