Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.

  • a Guest
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
14 years 10 months ago #2824 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
The 6.8 is dead in the water. It come from an ill advised 5th SF group experiment that had a political backing. I had a good friend that worked on the project and it has caused some early retirments. On the political end they got off scott free. All of the mess has not hit the fan yet, it got one general officer. I have a hard time beleiveing Remenington got sucked in on the 6.8 but I think they were seeing $$$$$$$$ and every one has been looking for something better becauses of the extended ranges in the sandbox and druged up tallywackers. As far as the army calibers goes the civillans usually use them first. We use to call the 223 the 222 1/2. It was very close to our benchrest design between the 222mag and the 222. I still have the reamer in the shop. Gene wanted what we call the 6-223 or its called the 6x45 across the pond but he kelp getting shot down on the idea. Thats an accurate mid range round that I shoot in some matches. Any one thats got a 6.8 should buy dies and brass now because the writing is on the wall for a lack of intrest, don't know how long the MFGs will offer it but it will slowly go away.MSH

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 years 10 months ago - 14 years 10 months ago #2827 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
MSH....on the 6x45, don't know about it, but the 6x35, Knights Armament went with it in the PDW,,,,it looks sweet, but civilians can't get it with out a permit... www.knightarmco.com/images/pdw1.html

I have read about the 6.8 SPC, unless you want to reload your self I would have to agree that it is a dead horse...It was designed as a alternative to the 7.62x51, it packs a punch but at close to medium range but at a distance,,,,,not so good. The 6.5 Grendel would be much better, it has a much better BC for distance with pretty much the same punch.....all these have be the alternative to the AR-10 just because of the over-penetration at close ranges....but I said in my article, even a 9mm will over penetrate at the right range...
On the alternatives......the 6.5 Grendel uses a AR-15 lower, were as the 6.5 Creedmore uses a AR-10 lower..but all in all ammo is not an easy thing to come by depending where you are.....the 7.62-.308 can be found about anywhere....well if they have it in stock..LOL
As for The Mags.........yes it is true....for now...lets hope that Westrom and Magpul can work something out and we can get the P-Mags for the AR-10.
On the Large cap mags..........nope....not sure you would be able to wield it if they had one....50 or even better 100 rounds of .308 would be alot of weight. 25 is the biggest I have come across, but I have stayed with the 20s, and I like to use the 10s for target shooting, need to get another, anyone have a spare 10 round Gen 2 they want to sell....??? :huh: :whistle:
On the dear hunting thing...well I say buy the best that you can get if you want the durability that our soldiers and LEOs place their lives on,,,,,and yours if it was to come to that....
On the Irons....go with the MI sights, they are affordable and durable.....
Last edit: 14 years 10 months ago by BUILDING MY SASS.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 years 10 months ago #2828 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
I will add this on the durability of the LaRue stuff, this is of course the Forward Universal Grip....F.U.G. but all their mounts have the same basic design.....you be the judge...

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 years 9 months ago #2844 by silver78
Replied by silver78 on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
I figured the 6.8 would bring some comments. Here's my take on the round.

First it's not an established round like the 308 or 5.56 so for anyone who wants to stick with more common rounds due to ammo availability, it's not a good option.

On the military development mess behind the development of the 6.8 MSH is probably right on this one as he often has access to this sort of information.

The 6.8 is not a substitute for the 308 - esp in longer barreled rifles. Even in shorter barreled configurations, the 308 is more powerful - but you need the larger/heavier AR10 platform for the 308.

On the 6.8 vs 6.5G - someone mentioned that the 6.5 has a better ballistic coefficient - true - but this really shows up at longer ranges which is often not what carbines are for. I own the 6.8 over the 6.5G because I wanted something for shorter ranges and most 6.8 factory loads are made to work best in shorter barrels. If I wanted to use the rifle for longer ranges with a longer barrel, then I would have bought a 6.5G.

I think the 6.8 or 6.5G or something like it will eventually gain enough popularity to have a permanent place in the AR15 platform market. I chose the 6.8 in part because it seems to be the most popular round in this size range. If the 6.8 dies, I won't buy reloading dies, I will re-barrel my upper, sell the 6.8 barrel and move on. That's one of the many advantages to the AR platform.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • a Guest
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
14 years 9 months ago #2852 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
Silver where have you been. We aint heard from you in a while. I told a guy this afternoon that the 6.5 grendel would be a better round if was .150 longer or held 5gr more powder. Its the one round that stands out thats almost good but has got a short boiler room. One of my buddys has a 6.8 necked to 6.5 reamer ground and he may be on the right track with more powder and a better bullet.MSH

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 years 9 months ago #2866 by silver78
Replied by silver78 on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
MSH - I have been busy with work and family but I'm fine. Thanks for asking. On the 6.8 vs 6.5. The 6.5 in any config seems to have a BC advantage. But for me I'm really more of a follower than leader in caliber selection. As of today the following manufacturers offer a 6.8 rifle as a standard offering:

Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River.

I just checked the big names here. The only one that does not offer a 6.8 is Colt. None of them offer the 6.5G. DPMS does offer the 6.5 Creedmore. The 6.8 for whatever reason seems to have the most market traction right now.

One more note for the rest of the folks here - my 6.8 upper was built by one of MSH's students.

BTW Dhammer - I think the platform you selected is a fine rifle. You should be quite happy with your selection. Let us know how it shoots when you finish your set-up.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • a Guest
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
14 years 9 months ago #2867 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
Silver I just started in on some of the palma rifles this week and this new reamer that they are using or the one they gave me aint cutting very well. I'm going to sent it back to the profile grinder.
I sat in on a meeting last week well after this thread got started and it looks as if another round of experments are coming for the M-4 platform. It seems that these idiots in DC know more about equiptment for fighting a war tham the fielded service personal. Due to lack of funds, IE over spending it has put equiptment upgrades on the back burner. The 6.8 is going to be stuck in the civilan market so anybodys guess where and how long that will go per-say.
The 6.5 Creedmore seems to be the most usefull for now. Carl came in 2nd at the nats with it last year. The bress can be easly made out of other cases so supply will never be a factor. The only thing that hurts it is the fact that the 260 does nothing wrong and can be necked very easy from the 243 and 308 family.
When useing these 308 frames for other calabers certin frames have an advantage over others because of the foward rake or the mag angle. For example the Armalite adapts to smaller dia bullets such as a 22-250. The DPMS,Rem,POF and others work better with 6.5 or larger dia bullets. Because of the lack of mag angle the bullet case has to depend more on the sholder angle as a ramp and the case dia to center the bullet in the center of the chamber for positive feeding. Thats why the plastic points on the bullets don't feed as well in the DPMS frames and work fine in the Armalite. Thats one of the reasons the M-4 cuts were made in the barrel extrntions on the AR frames. The real problem was the stack dementions of the receivers and the mags are causing this issue on the M4. Welcome to mill spec and Iso 9000 meeting. One or the other you cain't have both. It screwed the M4 into a barrel extention modification because mismatched parts. As other MFGs get in the market now this is going to show up in the 308 frames as well and cause all grades of greif. I seen it first hand 2 weeks ago with a POF lower and a DPMS upper. Both were of good quality and should match, but the little .002 and something here and there makes them a pain to fit up as a match set. So it goes back to use the right frame for the calaber to help solve some of the unexpected issues that will arise on a build. Try to use receivers that are of the same MFG.MSH

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 years 9 months ago #2868 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
MSH, all I can say to that is :woohoo: B)
WOW...I know it doesn't add anything but dam. I wish I could come learn from you some day.... ;)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • a Guest
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
14 years 9 months ago #2869 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions.
I hope that helps ever one understand how close on the edge these rifles are. We need to start a new thread on the problems and and corrections either documented or not. It will be a hot topic mostly addresed to the M4 M16 but its where and how we got to the point we are now on the large frames. I suggest that every one will have something to add as what worked for them and leave it as that type of thread. Jamming issues cycle problems sight alinement and such things should be examples. Mabe make the fixes into a sticky note for quick referanse. I like to read the tech problems and even an old fart like me always learns from stuff that happens. People usually arrive at the right answer on equipment in time and I hate the fact that we started with the A10 frame and the M16 frame was adopted and we have evolved full circle with the 308 frame in the sandbox. The Russian strategy of who brings the most fire power to the battle for the sake of ammo load was not to the USAs benifit. Case and point is the M14s are in the mix as supporting rifles again.
Sure glad Clinton was stopped from destroying them.MSH

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
14 years 9 months ago #2874 by crux
Replied by crux on topic Re:Wanting to get an AR-10 but have some questions
It is interesting to see the .308 finding It's way back into the mix. After Halloween I was dispositioning surplus pumpkins with a friend, he with his .223 and I with my .308. He commented "You missed", and I said "Yea but the shrapnel from the granite exploding behind him should have thrown off his aim." We were at 50 feet or so. After a few more rounds going through the pumpkin AND fragments of decomposed granite coming back next to us from behind the pumpkins, my friend commented "I've got to get me one of those."

As I've said before, In debating with myself long ago between AR-15 and AK-47, I decided what I wanted was all the power of the AK at the range of the AR. I selected the .308 for its proven history and availability (then I looked for a rifle to throw it), though I watch with great interest the development of new cartridges that seek to accomplish increased power at range.

I do appreciate all the news you bring MSH.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.