What Upper would you choose?

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15 years 1 month ago #2111 by BUILDING MY SASS
What Upper would you choose? was created by BUILDING MY SASS
Hi my friends, I haven't posted a question in a while. Now I have one that I need your input on. Being that I have an A4 CB, I have been giving some thought as to Long Range shooting. After my range day videos, where I shot out to 400 yards with acceptable results, granted a long way from competition hits, never the less I was happy with it, anyway I got to thinking about 700 yard and 1K mark. I am not to sure if the 16" barrel will prove to be that accurate.
So I am toying with the idea of getting another upper for longer range shooting, keeping my carbine lower of course.
Now granted, this is something for down the road when the $$$ would be at hand.
OK, we have on the table,

The standard A4 upper, with the 20" barrel and would add a free float fore arm to it, of course.
The "T" upper with the 20" SST barrel, with a muzzle break and threaded to accept a can possibly.
Or the SUPER SASS upper, with all the trimmings.
Now I know there is a big price difference between them all, ranging from 800.00 to 2K for the SASS, but it is what I am thinking of (range) is what I am looking for thoughts on.
Give it some thought my friends and let me know what you think.
Thanks.....................BMS.

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15 years 1 month ago #2112 by Edge
Replied by Edge on topic Re:What Upper would you choose?
BMS,

These are some things that I've experienced with the Semi-auto platform when doing long range precision work.

You need to play around with different loads and find one that will keep supersonic speeds to the desired distance that you intend to shoot. Normally a bullet has the tendency to start wobbling when it goes sub-sonic. (there are exceptions to this). This can be done in a number of ways with the AR platform. One would be to increase your powder charge, being careful not to exceed overpressure issues. Another would be to increase barrel length and yet another would be to choose a lighter bullet, like the 155gr Palma or 110 gr AMAX. One could also experiment with heavier bullets like the 190gr SMK or 208gr AMAX.

That being said, your 16" barrel could get you to 1000 yards, with a bit of practice and load developement. (is it ideal, no, but you could try) Try out different loads. I'm assuming your barrel has a 1:11.25" twist rate. If so, try some of the heavier match bullets, like the 175 SMK or even the 180 Noslers. I've had great success with both. You might even try the 155gr SMK Palma or 155gr Lapua Scenar.

Another thing to consider is your optics. The better the optic, the better you'll be able to see the target clearly. Leupold Mark 4's, Nightforce NXS, Premier Reticles, S&B, etc. are great scopes for long distance.

Does your AR have a match trigger? These can also help increase your accuracy.

You have a lot of things to consider and to a certain extent, throwing money at this can help you. Unfortunate, but true, whether it be ammo, optics or equipment.

For now, I would experiment with what you have. If you have a load that can shoot sub-moa at 100 yards, then start seeing what that same load will do at 1000 yards. If you can put 5 rounds into a 10" circle at 1000 yards, then you can compete well with most long range tactical shooters.

In your video I seem to recall it took a few shots before you hit the 400 or 500 yard gong. Practice shooting at this until you get it on the first round, and then every round after that. Practice good breathing technique, trigger control and sight picture. Are you able to dial in your dope for that range with your scope or are you holding over?

Lots of things to consider.......and after all this, it will probably still bring you back to buying a better barreled upper. I would go for a 20" match grade or the SASS.

D

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15 years 1 month ago - 15 years 1 month ago #2113 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:What Upper would you choose?
Edge.

Wow, my friend, I will try to go in order.....LOL.

On the heavier loads, well I have not started my reloading yet, I have so very very much to learn on that, my reloading will probably consist of plinking and Zombie rounds to start.
I also don't want to exceed the factory specs (for now) just in case.
Yes the twist rate is just that.
I think the 175 gr SMK might be the way to go for now, if I can find some.
On the optics, well I would definitely agree on that issue. At 400 yards I had a hard time seeing the target, the mil-dot for the most part covered it. I am going to look into a Shepard Scope, set up for the .308. After playing with one, I really like how it is set up.
My trigger is a two stage tactical, what is what it came with and I have gotten pretty good with the pull on it.
In all actuality in the video, at 400 yards I was using the hold over method using my mil-dots, and my friend, I hit the gong and the pig, 3 for 3, the other shots where at the 12" shoot n see. All in all, I hit 11 out of 13 rounds for my first time shooting that distance.
Your are absolutely right about that there are many things to consider.
As for what I will go with, well that is going to depend on the $$$ when I have it, as you know I do have one other thing that I want to work on first.....(smiley)
It is good to hear your input my friend, wonder what Crux will have to add......LOL.
Thanks for the thoughts
BMS
Last edit: 15 years 1 month ago by BUILDING MY SASS.

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15 years 1 month ago #2114 by thisisdon
Replied by thisisdon on topic Re:What Upper would you choose?
After some chatting recently with an SOF Operator friend of mine, with access to anything they want, the barrel length came up as it often will when talking long range. My 700 SPS Tactical has an 18" barrel on it and is ultra accurate, I know its a bolt gun but basically the theories are the same. He went to a school where the topic came up and the did an experiment where two of the same rifles were used with the same ammo. one had a 20 in barrel, and one was cut and recrowned to 18. The results were nearly identical out to approx 700 yds. After that is where the difference came in, but could be changed with different loads, more to the point, handloading for your particular rifle. Either will do fine to 1000 yds, and will differ based on the ammunition used. Im thinking he told me the .308 went subsonic somewhere around 1000 yds. This is just paraphrased so I hope maybe it helps a little. Rangers Lead The Way

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15 years 1 month ago #2115 by thisisdon
Replied by thisisdon on topic Re:What Upper would you choose?
Oh, as far as the upper, which I think is what the thread was started for, at least make sure it has a fwd assist, ejection port cover, and is flat topped for optics as I made the mistake once, and had to get an A3 for my SASS. Don. RLTW!!!

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15 years 1 month ago #2116 by Edge
Replied by Edge on topic Re:What Upper would you choose?
BMS,

Sorry, I must have been thinking of a different video.

It sounds like you have everything you need. I doubt that you'll be able to get a 5" group at 1000 yards, but with practice and the right load, I think you could easily hit 1000.

As for the 18" barrel that Don was talking about. There has been a lot of discussion lately about this in the last year or so. The main issue stems from operators wanting a rifle in which they can get in and out of vehicles and into confined spaces easier. Plus a smaller rifle is a lot easier to weild in urban environments. With modern technology the 18" barreled bolt guns can do what 24" bolt guns were doing just a few years ago. Some velocity is lost, but accuracy is not lost with these gun. The discussion really heated up when the Chandler brothers released the XM3 sniper rifle.

The current trend in "sniper" rifles, at least from a military perspective seems to be leaning towards semi-auto's or short barreled rifles. Some are even going with bigger rounds, like the 300WM or 338 Lapua, so they can really reach out and touch someone.

Anyway, back to your original question, I would wait until you play around with what you currently have. Then you might call up Armalite or a custom builder and have a 20" match barreled upper made for you.

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15 years 1 month ago #2117 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:What Upper would you choose?
Don, sorry to hear about the "oops" on your rifle, as for the rest, ArmaLite has all those standard, I really don't have use for the FA, as they put it on them to bring them up to total Mil-spec for the military, and thanks.

Edge...it's all good on the vids, I did have alot to look at...LOL.
On the larger calibers, well I am not getting any younger, one of the reasons I sold my 30-06.
You know it is funny, how many articles that I have read about the side by side comparison of the Autos and the Bolts, with the same ammo, and they came in .25" of each other on 100 to 500 yards, in the right hands of course. I would have to agree that I need more range time with ranges (smiley)and definitely some better optics for the distance.
The Mark 2 is good to about 400 of so, but I would have to do some serious tuning at 750 or 1K, and I am not very experienced with dialing or doping the scope. I do have a target for 1K, it's a 4' x 4' mid blue paper with 1" squares on it, don't know if I could even see it with the scope I have now, but maybe.
You know my friend I wish you lived closer, I would set up some instruction from you on the range.....LOL. Hey I remember Fox was going to build a 1K range, maybe we should meet up at his place for a vacation next spring and do some shooting, you could be the official instructor for us novices...(laughing smiley)
Well thanks again, and any other thoughts, please add away, I will take all the input I can get.

BUILDING MY SASS

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15 years 2 weeks ago #2180 by silver78
Replied by silver78 on topic Re:What Upper would you choose?
I suggest a custom upper that is longer than 20 inches - say 22 or 24 inches with an extended gas system. MSH or Hollinger can build you a good one and now that SWS offers a 15" free float tube, it's easy to cover that extended gas system. You already have a 16 inch upper so get something that will really reach out to the longer ranges.

Before you start saying 24 inches is too long remember that the M24 has a 24 inch barrel. I seem to be one of the few who appreciates the longer barrels on the AR-10 any more. Years ago, there was a lot more appreciation for longer barrels on the AR-10 community.

In my view, if you want something short and compact with more punch than a 5.56, get a 6.8 upper. It's great for shorter range work and more compact than any AR-10.

PS - I admit I'm an old fart who changes slowly so feel free to ignore this post - just needed to rant.

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15 years 2 weeks ago #2185 by BUILDING MY SASS
Replied by BUILDING MY SASS on topic Re:What Upper would you choose?
Hey we all need to rant from time to time, I would have to agree on a custom upper but I am a stickler for factory warranties. Not to say that MSH wouldn't guarantee his work, I just would like to keep it factory spec, for now.
Anyway this is a venture to be under taken down the road.
I may have to get with him to see what it would cost.
I trust his work, from all that I have heard and read...

BMS

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