Bad Primer....Bad Primer......Bad Primer

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15 years 2 weeks ago #2522 by Dont_Tread_On_Me
Bad Primer....Bad Primer......Bad Primer was created by Dont_Tread_On_Me
Now seeing as how I'm getting my first AR pretty soon, I just have to ask how in the hell something like this happens.


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15 years 2 weeks ago #2523 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Bad Primer....Bad Primer......Bad Primer
When the accident happened he had to use the forward assist and he didn't check if the bolt went home. He hit it and fired. Looks like out of battery. There is only 22 1/2 degrees of bolt rotation and the bolt must be all the way home. Seen this a bunch. The cause of this looks to be having the sizing die not adjusted properly. The cases should go in and out of the chamber by pushing or pulling on the bolt carrier with your little finger with regular dies. Also these GI cases need to be de-crimped at the primer pockets which could have also added to this problem. So size the case properly and decrimp the primer pockets. I'll bet the primers were all good. We had problem with this on the 50 cal Browning a few years back that I did an investigation on for the army. There is one going on now on a MFG company that makes these types of rifles, but no questions on that issue this drops here and now until what ever happens. You will be safe using your head and properly working your brass. Remember to test the cases with the finger before loading.MSH

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15 years 1 week ago #2536 by Hank in Arkansas
Replied by Hank in Arkansas on topic Re:Bad Primer....Bad Primer......Bad Primer
MSH, I think your analysis is right on. As you may know from my previous posts, I have an Armalite AR10B. I got it because the original purchaser found it wouldn't easily chamber Russian steel cased lacquered ammo. He stuck a round in the chamber and returned the rifle to a gun shop. I bought it (unfired). I quickly found it would feed any common brass cased FACTORY ammo, but would fail to feed some of my handloads that used a regular sizing die. I switched to a Redding Small Base die, and sized cases to minimum dimensions, and now it feeds every time. The regular sizing dies I had been using for other .308s just left the cases a bit too large. I also started using the Lee Factory Crimp die, and CCI34 arsenal primers, just for added safety. My rifle does not have a forward assist, so if a round doesn't chamber, I don't try to fire that round. Again, since SB sizing, this has not been a problem. I haven't done a chamber cast, but I think my AR10 has a tight match chamber. Out of battery firings are a gas gun problem, usually when parts don't fit as well as they should. It shouldn't happen, but it does.

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15 years 1 week ago #2544 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Bad Primer....Bad Primer......Bad Primer
Hank if you can get away from that crimp die only I think you would be better off in the long run. They cause higher pressures and if your using the small base die its got enough grip on the bullet.Crimper scare me some and do cause trouble.MSH

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15 years 1 week ago #2546 by Hank in Arkansas
Replied by Hank in Arkansas on topic Re:Bad Primer....Bad Primer......Bad Primer
MSH, I'm curious about your crimping concerns. Factory ammo, especially military, is crimped like crazy and even lacquered in place. I'll readily concede that a crimp that's also "crimped" by the end of the barrel throat is a big problem, but otherwise shouldn't be. Most of the bullets I use have a crimp goove.

For what it's worth, I have tried taper crimping, but I don't like it. A little too much taper crimp can result in a bulged neck, thus resulting in even less neck tension than before the crimp was applied. The Lee die uses a collet to just squeeze the first few hundreths inch of the neck into the groove.

Have you seen actual lab results showing that a rifle cartridged that is crimped can cause a dangerous spike in pressure?

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15 years 1 week ago #2548 by a Guest
Replied by a Guest on topic Re:Bad Primer....Bad Primer......Bad Primer
They can cause galvanic welding with the right weather conditions and lubes. I have seen this. There were a bunch of 06 stuff that blew up 03s in the past. I dont load when its raining for example.MSH

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15 years 1 week ago #2549 by Hank in Arkansas
Replied by Hank in Arkansas on topic Re:Bad Primer....Bad Primer......Bad Primer
You raise an interesting issue here. Normally, copper (bullet) and brass (case) have a very low potential for galvanic corrosion. However, the military has often used mild steel in cases and in bullets, plus they have used a variety of priming compounds, many with mercury. Also, if ammo is subjected to a bad environment (like seawater) then corrosion can be enhanced. Lubes or lacquer could also be a factor. But galvanic action wouldn't need a crimp to start; simple contact between dissimilar metals is enough, particularly in the presence of an electrolyte solution like salt water. I've seen some surplus ammo that was obviously stored in an improper environment, with corrosion visible on the outside of the cases. I never thought about galvanic corrosion (or welding) between the bullet and case when looking at such ammo. I know when pulling bullets out of surplus ammo, it's usually best to slightly "bump" the bullets with a seating stem to break the bond of lacquer and/or crimp. I appreciate the info, but I think I'll still crimp for my semiautos and lever guns, but not for my bolt guns. I realize crimps aren't good for accuracy (generally), but make dynamic feeding a little safer. And I'll store my ammo carefully.

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