CCW class.

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12 years 6 months ago #11771 by Charlie
CCW class. was created by Charlie
I went to the CCW class last Friday (finally!). It was an all day (8 to 5) affair with the Sheriff's office, and was pretty interesting.

The class consisted of about four hours of firearms safety instruction which was on a pretty basic level. The instructor made sure we knew how to clear our handgun and carry it safely, then we made a trip to the range.

We fired 12 rds (six and six) at a man size silhouette from a distance of 5, 10 and 15 feet. All 36 rounds had to land on the silhouette. This was not much of a challenge!

Back at the classroom we were fingerprinted and instructed in where/when/why scenarios, tactical response, and where not to carry. There was some other stuff like imprinting and flashing, moving and cover, but these were not covered in detail.

Overall I was very pleased with the instructor and the class. Considering the material he had to work with he did an excellent job.

I had to get some stuff notarized and dig up my divorce judgement, but the paperwork goes in tomorrow.

Hurrah!
Charlie

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12 years 6 months ago - 12 years 6 months ago #11774 by Akai
Replied by Akai on topic Re: CCW class.
Alright :woohoo: Great :woohoo: Support CC everyone should get a permit while you can, we had to fight long and hard for this right so act now and get your CCP I applaud you :cheer: it's well worth the effort, one class, some paper work and a few $ will keep you out of jail if you follow the laws ;) and around 45 days from now your freedom will feel like it has increased 100% :) Now just to have the right holster and pistol ah what fun :lol:
Last edit: 12 years 6 months ago by Akai.

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12 years 6 months ago #11780 by zfk55
Replied by zfk55 on topic Re: CCW class.
I can't remember it I had posted this one before. If I rmember right, it's something my Father wrote quite a few years ago for a local group that enquired about CC instruction.
It's worth the read.

Requirements for a CC Permit by Sheriff Departments, City Police and States vary widely and wildly. Wildly because in some venues there seems to be little connection between self defence and a field hunting course to obtain a CC.
In the field, never carry a rifle with a chambered round. Always keep the muzzle down. Never crawl through a fence with your rifle. Congratulations. You passed.

Responsibility for being fully qualified to obtain a permit and carry a sidearm rests solely with you, the applicant. You are responsible for the depth and pertinence of the course, after all, the choice of a teaching methodolgy is something upon which you must decide. Its not only your right, but its more importanly your duty to seek the proper teacher and course methodlogy to ensure your own safety both in real life and in the courts should that be your misfortune. Selecting the right course is the first and probably most important step you'll take in your quest for a CC Permit.

There are many approaches to teaching self defence employing the use of a firearm, be it pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle. There are most certainly more than one good approach, but the end result should always be the same. A knowlegeable, competent and aware CC candidate, well schooled in every aspect of firearm and personal responsibility. You should most certainly interview your prospective teacher as if he/she were a job applicant. Interviewing a self defence instructor is by far more important than interviewing a salesman, waitress or a structural engineer. Upon that interview and acceptance of an instructor will potentially hang the rest of your life.

I'd like to give you the basics of what a CC course should contain. There may be instructors who require more or less, but the end result should be the same.
My course of instruction begins with a two way interview. The candidate should be asking me any and all questions to determine my qualifications, approach and expected additude. I will be asking the candidate a number of key questions to determine that I am comfortable with his/her state of mental preparedness for a live firearms course. Some of the questions might be leading questions to determine the candidate's true purpose for wanting a CC. In my history I have most definitely turned down candidates for what I consider to be bad or cavalier attitudes. Its my right to determine fitness as it is their's to determine my qualifications. If I certify you, its my responsibilty to the Sheriff to give him truly qualified applicants.

Classes begin with required reading. I typically use the old Ayoob book, In the Gravest Extreme. Discussion of the book contents always follows, and when I determine the candidate has a firm grasp of potential negatives and the legal ramifications that can be potential life changing events, I move on to firearm introductions with a side trip of another required reading, Jordan's "No Second Place Winners"
A range that allows users to check out various sidearms is greatly preferrable. I never recommend a specific firearm other than to point out that a snubby revolver might be easier for a lady to carry in her purse. Proven revolvers have virtually a zero FTF, and by "proven" I mean a revolver and caliber that's been successfully in production for a long time. For anyone, never less than a .38 with a +P and up being preferrable. (Although it appears that I'm going to take a personal "flyer" at the new .327 Magnum just for fun) I know, I know.

If a candidate has no access to a pistol loaner range I discuss the reality of a suitable revolver or semi-auto for purchase. This may include a number of personal factors as to method of anticipated carry, comfort/size of the caliber and budget. Personal strength and recoil factor into the decision making equation. My own feeling is that a revolver is the correct sidearm for anyone who has no practical firearm experience. Semi-autos are an inherently more difficult tool to master for the complete novice. If an experienced shooter appears to have issues with semi-auto function during the course I require a switch to revolvers. All attention should be focused on the issue of learning and not on the function or periodic failure of the firearm to feed, extract or eject.

Practical field instruction begins with lessons in Point of Vision shooting. The candidate is taught how to make parafin loads for his/her sidearm. This allows them to practice at home in the garage or even in the house. we take a nominal 40 cases, drill out the primer pockets to 1/8", notch the rim with a file (to avoid mistaking the brass as reloadable with powder and projectiles), and size the brass. Parafin is then melted in a shallow pan to a depth of a nominal 1/4to 3/8" deep (depending on caliber) . The cases are then placed nose down in the parafin and allows to cool until hard. Once cool and hard ( a refrigerator helps) they are gently rocked side to side and removed. By this time the candidate has already secured a Lee or RCBS hand primer in the appropriate caliber. The cases are primed. A piece of cardboard or softer material is set up with a black Magic Marker, life sized profile of a human. Using plywood is not recommended and will startle you with the impact of the parafin. Its far more than you imagine. No... the parafin won't goo up your rifling. After the session, collect the parafin on the floor and target and then useing a brass brush and a swab with alcohol leaves the lands/grooves/ clean and free of wax if there is any. The wax won't melt as it passes down the bore. Dwell time is very short and the primers cause no appreciable heat.

The next step is one that must be experienced to fully understand. The applicant is taught to hang the pistol at the side, raise to a natural height midway between stomach and chest, bring both hands together, focus on the chest area, squeeze and fire, fluidly in one motion. Many succeed quickly, but for most it takes practice. Lots of practice, thus the economy of wax loads. Raise, left hand over the right on the pistolgrip, center, squeeze and fire. Over and over until its second nature. If the projectile hits consistently too low, some applicants learn to simply "look higher" IE: at the shoulder level or even the neck level of the foe. If their point of vision impact is naturally low, they simply look higher. Understand that these wax projectiles will travel an easy 25 feet dead true, just as true as a lead projectile. Make no mistake. The impact of the wax projectile is enough to penetrate and kill as very short ranges.

Once a true point of vison excercise is natural and accomplished every time, the applicant begins to draw from the holster, purse or bag, whatever the normal carry vehicle would be. Sound odd? Nope. If she's going to be carrying in a purse, then the purse is from where she will draw. At this point a number of women may determine they want to have the option of carrying behind the right hip. In either case, practice now shifts to that mode.

The next step will be "reflex" shooting. Learning to use one hand and hit a body center every time. When a quick reflex to a danger is suddenly required, this excercise is paramount. This excercise is less accurate for some and very accurate for others, but both must be learned. Wax projectiles, weapon hanging at the side, raise and fire and then on to drawing from the carry mode. Speed has nothing whatsoever to do with the course. Speed for the candidate comes later and on their own. No speed drawing is ever allowed on our premises. We do recommend a few on-line videos for those who intend to learn proper speed draw methodology.

Now comes the live fire course. We always begin with a .22 pistol and the (by now) familiar two handed raise, center, squeeze and fire excercise followed by the reflex application. The final part of the live fire course is utilization of the candidate's own firearm in the same, very familiar sequence. Drawing from the carry vehicle is always done slowly and smoothly. No quick draw on premises.

By this time we've already covered (with the applicant) why the applicant should avail him/herself of every opportunity to avoid the confrontation. Walking, talking, running away (if practicable), being constantly aware of surroundings, keeping clear of unusual secluded areas and late night individuals in low light, little trafficked areas and doing anything within reason to avoid drawing their firearm.

The applicant is urged to never discuss the firearm, show the firearm, make carrying obvious or the fact that they are indeed carrying. Not friends, not family (if applicable), not fellow workers, not even your Priest, Pastor or Rabbi. Nobody.

Its very important that the applicant learn to assume the weight of the firearm as natural, something not noticed, not consciously aware of the weight or the fact that its even there. Its equally importatnt to not be suspicious of every stranger, every situation of daily life, every sudden noise, every quick movement around you. The firearm should simply be another part of your body, not a conscious part but one to be called upon in the gravest extreme.

A successful applicant will not be constantly watching and waiting, expecting the worst. Carrying in itself typically makes the carrier more relaxed, more secure feeling, more responsible and far less likely to react violently or overreact.
Regular range time is strongly encouraged.

There are far more aspects to my course than can easily be presented here considering the typist has the will of a youngster and the fingers of an OldGuy. Push, step back, brace and draw etc. Many little and bigger things are presented in the course of the live classes. Bear in mind that this is not a Practical Pistol course but a base for self defense shooting. Other instructors may broaden the base of their courses and expand into related shooting excercises and events.
Its only important to remember that the final judge of the prospective course is you, the applicant. The responsibility for everything that occurs after the issuing of your CC with your firearm is your responsibilty, and yours alone. There will be no instructor to stand by your side in a courtroom testifying as to the validity of the shoot. No instructor should ever present scenarios to a student. Its not remotely possible to present them all and the student's first confromtation would most likely be something never considered. Don't dwell on "what if"s. Ayoob's books present rational confrontation responses. I can only answer what I might do, not what the candidate should do.
Choose your teacher carefully and remember that if something doesn't sound reasonable and rational, it probably isnt.

Shoot straight, think carefully as quickly as you can and..........
....stay low.

zfk55/sr


Of course you're right. It is a right to carry and self defense, however many county commissioners, city councils, PDs and Sheriff Departments do put stumbling blocks in the way.
I have an excellent working rapport with all of the above mentioned, and if a new licensee is involved in a bad (his) fault situation because of a found and obvious irrational mindset, the one who offered the certification is noted. When I turn down a candidate I always refer him/her to the NRA Field Instructor who can and will certify them simply for completeing their course. They're not bound to be certified by me. I consider that I offer pthe best I can give in preparedness and peace of mind.
If I certify a candidate, the Sheriff knows that candidate has been through as much as is practical for individual preparedness and responsibility.
I never judge who should and should not carry. That's not in my pervue, however its definitely my right to pass on an applicant if I feel there is a definite problem. I don't want to go to bed thinking about a bad shoot involving an applicant I knowingly and erroneously passed simply because of his/her right to carry.
I can't be right all or even most of the time, but I have to live with myself if I pass an applicant just because of that right.

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12 years 6 months ago #11781 by jtallen83
Replied by jtallen83 on topic Re: CCW class.
We were having problems here in Iowa with certain county Sheriffs refusing to issue any permits to anyone. They changed the law so now all we need is a signed safety class certificate from the NRA or a simple DD214.
The NRA certificate can be had online in 15 minutes and I know a ton of clerks in the service that only saw a weapon once a year for an afternoon. Some predicted blood on the streets due to the lack of official training but over almost two years now and not one issue.
zfk55 put a very good guidline up and and I would recommend the same to anyone but...... let's not let the government mandate training for a God given right! Whether government wants to believe it or not the vast majority of us are competent, intelligent people that make good decisions.

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12 years 6 months ago #11785 by Charlie
Replied by Charlie on topic Re: CCW class.

zfk55 wrote: I can't remember it I had posted this one before....


That's an excellent analysis! I copied it to the "Must Read" file.

My instructor followed your dad's recommendations to the letter. My concerns about the class were:

1. Some students were not familiar with their handgun.
2. Some students were not able to operate their handgun (too weak to load the mag).
3. Some students had a very vague understanding of "Muzzle Control"!

Of the 18 students in the class (including me) there were three that I had major issues with (some fell into more than one of the categories listed above). Of the other 14 (I do not include myself in the "issue" category :P ) two were so mousey that I think they would freeze at the slightest threat. Of the remaining twelve there were only two that I would feel comfortable with if they were in an adjacent lane at the range!

Doesn't anybody know how to handle weapons anymore?

Sheesh,
Charlie

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12 years 6 months ago #11788 by Moby
Replied by Moby on topic Re: CCW class.
Just filed my CHL here in Texas.
Waiting for back ground check and issuing.

I too believe averyone should get their CHL.
It's a right, and it prevents crime.

In my town I've heard from more than one person if you're pulled over for a minor traffic stop and present a CHL most likely you'll be let go rather than get a ticket. Cops don't want to deal with the gun issue. That and they know you had an extensive background check. Do not if it's true or not.

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12 years 6 months ago #11789 by Moby
Replied by Moby on topic Re: CCW class.
One other thing you concealed carriers should consider.
I'm putting my home in a trust. With the wife and I as executers.
The reason is if for some reason I have to use my firearm I will be sued. You can count on it. Anything in the trust is untouchable.
It's a cheap and very effective form of protection.

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12 years 6 months ago #11790 by Moby
Replied by Moby on topic Re: CCW class.
I have to step back from the "putting my home in a trust" thing.

I posted this at TexasCHL forums and many folks pointing out that the "Home Stead" laws were better protection and a trust would remove that portection.
Also if it's a clean shoot, in Texas we are protected from civel suits.

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12 years 6 months ago #11799 by sansone
Replied by sansone on topic Re: CCW class.
gosh I love texas, bought 10 acres in new mexico to put a doublewide there, maybe texas would have been a better choice

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